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It bears repeating, many people who think they have burnout actually have chronic fatigue (CFS/ME) but don’t know it yet. Repeated burnouts may simply be a rela

It bears repeating, many people who think they have burnout actually have chronic fatigue (CFS/ME) but don’t know it yet. Repeated burnouts may simply be a relapse and recovery cycle. A number of the genetic predispositions to CFS also tends to have behavioral components (anxiety disorders and ADHD) that include a preference for a career in software. Now with Covid many of those who may never have had CFS are finding themselves with Long Covid. I mention this because the treatment for burnout is completely different to the treatment for CFS.

4ggr0 5y ago
I'm ADD and suspect that I had a burnout in 2020(not diagnosed, but in retrospect I am quite sure). Had COVID 2 weeks ago and since then I can't really focus even with meds and sleep refreshes me even less than before. All that being said, do you have some resources to share? Sounds like I could be one of the people you describe...
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  Main thing is instead of searching for burnout treatment search for CFS/ME treatments. There is no simple explanation nor easy treatments. It’s also very different depending on what’s actually wrong with you. I have hEDS so the treatments I do focuses on immunomodulators like LDN and LDA, hormone replacement therapy like Testosterone and T3, dysautonomia meds like propranolol, and research peptides like ipamorelin. I take a lot of vitamins as well but I’m not sure about their efficacy. These are serious meds and not recommend for most - but they have recovered a lot of functionality for me. People should do their own research. My hope is that they find out that CFS is caused by auto-antibodies and could be cured by a neutralizing aptamer like BC007. But the CFS research is only starting in earnest now with LongCovid so it could be many years before a proper treatment is available.
puttycat 5y ago
Super interesting. Any references you can share?
thenerdhead 5y ago
While it sounds correlated, I don't know if that's true. They surely can complement each other quite well though! 2021 I had long covid for almost 14 months. I still worked and burnt out once about halfway through the year. 2022 I recovered and am burning out right now again halfway through the year. I have plenty of energy. I work on compelling side projects, exercise everyday, and raise two kids. I just don't really feel valued at work for a plethora of reasons and it makes it hard to want to work right now after busting my ass everyday. What I've found is the "treatment" to burnout is clarity. As I continue to reflect on why I'm burned out, it's many things that are bringing clarity to my long term goals in life. This goes back to self-determination theory of feeling a sense of competence, relatedness, and autonomy. When any of these are threatened or perceived that way at work, I see myself burning out.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  Not everybody experiencing burnout has CFS/ME but enough do that it’s worth pointing out every time there is a burnout discussion. I thought I simply kept burning out through overwork for about 10 years before discovering that I actually had CFS and I’m assuming I’m not the only one. I was highly resistant to the idea of having it as I did not identify with the disability and thought CFS people were just lazy. Had I known I would have treated it better sooner.
  - thenerdhead 5y ago
    Is the overworking leading to constant stress and that stress leading to ME/CFS which leads to a number of issues like trouble sleeping, physical/mental symptoms, and depression/anxiety? This seems to be significantly undiagnosed. How do you know? What treatment has significantly helped? Getting good sleep? Mindfulness? Walks? etc? I ask because I'm writing a book about this and want to learn more.
    - cjbgkagh 5y ago
zackmorris 5y ago
Was going to comment something similar. After 4 years at a job I loved, went through the worst burnout of my life in 2018-2019, roughly the year before the pandemic. Lost the job and about lost my mind when executive dysfunction made it so hard to find work. Spent 2020 doing handyman work and donating plasma to make rent. Turns out that I was sensitive to wheat, milk/unaged cheese and almonds but didn't know it yet. That saps serotonin, which made it feel like the world was continuously attacking me. Which feels like the withdrawal symptoms of untreated ADHD, like quitting smoking constantly. But at the time, I thought I had something like CFS or fibromyalgia. I believe that these may be correlated with inflammatory foods, and that I might have eventually developed a chronic condition like hypothyroidism or even cancer, so it's worth taking a food sensitivity test. I took the https://www.everlywell.com https://www.everlywell.com (no affiliation) test of 200 foods and credit it with pretty much saving my life. Or at the very least, my psyche. I think what helped me mentally recover during the pandemic was TikTok and the shared awakening that so many people have been experiencing. Love/hate for that app is probably going to correlate with how feeling/thinking, intuitive/sensing and perceiving/judging someone's brain works though (I'm an INFP) so YMMV. I find that shifting realities from a downward to an upward spiral has made me more grateful and aligned me more towards shared prosperity. When I let my ego's goals finally die after 20 years of negative feedback loops, I found that the world picks up the slack so those goals happen anyway in a magnified way, which is manifestation. What I'm trying to say is that if anyone is struggling with burnout, there's probably another cause which isn't apparent. For example, if you never have time to have a hobby anymore, it's probably time to set boundaries and communicate your needs. If you have no motivation for art or life goals, you might need to pencil active rest into your schedule, so that you give yourself a chance to become bored so you can hear your calling and discover a path to self-actualization. That peaceful source energy that's so abundant in nature is all but denied to us in the modern world where we can't even see the sky or hear a bird. If that all sounds impossible, then those self-imposed barriers are probably attached to emotional trauma. Like if you're sacrificing your peace for a loved one, it might be time to do some shadow work to understand why you're overprotecting them from their own human experience and dignity. This can look like making the opposite choice than the one you have been making, and observing how reality reconfigures, who's blocking healing, who's helping, etc. It might be painful in the short term, but as each positive feedback cycle engages, it gets easier, and the other side is almost always better than what came before.
paulmd 5y ago
side note but if you're suffering from chronic fatigue please also consider getting checked out for sleep apnea especially if you snore or are overweight (which again is not uncommon for programmers given we sit on our asses all day). It very well may not be the only problem, but it may be part of the problem. In the long term sleep apnea will fuck up your heart due to hypoxia and it can't be good for your brain or anything else. Plus sleep disorders seem to possibly be tied to Alzheimers (one theory is that REM sleep helps clear amyloid proteins). It's just bad news in general and it's widely under-diagnosed given how fat the american population is.
vorpalhex 5y ago
CFS is a diagnosis by exclusion. It may not be a particular disorder but instead acts as a catch all. CFS does not have a specific treatment. There are standard courses that are recommended, but there is no consensus on how to treat it. Usually treatment involves treating underlying disorders such as depression. Burnout is a stress response. Unlike CFS, you should improve with rest and taking time. Note that this doesn't mean you are going to go back to a hundred percent because you take a few days, but seeing improvement on vacation is a good indicator of burnout.
- cjbgkagh 5y ago
  The ‘wastebasket’ diagnosis is old. CFS/ME is it’s own thing and has been for some time.

4ggr0 5y ago

I'm ADD and suspect that I had a burnout in 2020(not diagnosed, but in retrospect I am quite sure). Had COVID 2 weeks ago and since then I can't really focus even with meds and sleep refreshes me even less than before. All that being said, do you have some resources to share? Sounds like I could be one of the people you describe...

cjbgkagh 5y ago
Main thing is instead of searching for burnout treatment search for CFS/ME treatments. There is no simple explanation nor easy treatments. It’s also very different depending on what’s actually wrong with you. I have hEDS so the treatments I do focuses on immunomodulators like LDN and LDA, hormone replacement therapy like Testosterone and T3, dysautonomia meds like propranolol, and research peptides like ipamorelin. I take a lot of vitamins as well but I’m not sure about their efficacy. These are serious meds and not recommend for most - but they have recovered a lot of functionality for me. People should do their own research. My hope is that they find out that CFS is caused by auto-antibodies and could be cured by a neutralizing aptamer like BC007. But the CFS research is only starting in earnest now with LongCovid so it could be many years before a proper treatment is available.

puttycat 5y ago

Super interesting. Any references you can share?

thenerdhead 5y ago

While it sounds correlated, I don't know if that's true. They surely can complement each other quite well though! 2021 I had long covid for almost 14 months. I still worked and burnt out once about halfway through the year. 2022 I recovered and am burning out right now again halfway through the year. I have plenty of energy. I work on compelling side projects, exercise everyday, and raise two kids. I just don't really feel valued at work for a plethora of reasons and it makes it hard to want to work right now after busting my ass everyday. What I've found is the "treatment" to burnout is clarity. As I continue to reflect on why I'm burned out, it's many things that are bringing clarity to my long term goals in life. This goes back to self-determination theory of feeling a sense of competence, relatedness, and autonomy. When any of these are threatened or perceived that way at work, I see myself burning out.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
cjbgkagh 5y ago
Not everybody experiencing burnout has CFS/ME but enough do that it’s worth pointing out every time there is a burnout discussion. I thought I simply kept burning out through overwork for about 10 years before discovering that I actually had CFS and I’m assuming I’m not the only one. I was highly resistant to the idea of having it as I did not identify with the disability and thought CFS people were just lazy. Had I known I would have treated it better sooner.
- thenerdhead 5y ago
  Is the overworking leading to constant stress and that stress leading to ME/CFS which leads to a number of issues like trouble sleeping, physical/mental symptoms, and depression/anxiety? This seems to be significantly undiagnosed. How do you know? What treatment has significantly helped? Getting good sleep? Mindfulness? Walks? etc? I ask because I'm writing a book about this and want to learn more.
  - cjbgkagh 5y ago

zackmorris 5y ago

Was going to comment something similar. After 4 years at a job I loved, went through the worst burnout of my life in 2018-2019, roughly the year before the pandemic. Lost the job and about lost my mind when executive dysfunction made it so hard to find work. Spent 2020 doing handyman work and donating plasma to make rent. Turns out that I was sensitive to wheat, milk/unaged cheese and almonds but didn't know it yet. That saps serotonin, which made it feel like the world was continuously attacking me. Which feels like the withdrawal symptoms of untreated ADHD, like quitting smoking constantly. But at the time, I thought I had something like CFS or fibromyalgia. I believe that these may be correlated with inflammatory foods, and that I might have eventually developed a chronic condition like hypothyroidism or even cancer, so it's worth taking a food sensitivity test. I took the https://www.everlywell.com https://www.everlywell.com (no affiliation) test of 200 foods and credit it with pretty much saving my life. Or at the very least, my psyche. I think what helped me mentally recover during the pandemic was TikTok and the shared awakening that so many people have been experiencing. Love/hate for that app is probably going to correlate with how feeling/thinking, intuitive/sensing and perceiving/judging someone's brain works though (I'm an INFP) so YMMV. I find that shifting realities from a downward to an upward spiral has made me more grateful and aligned me more towards shared prosperity. When I let my ego's goals finally die after 20 years of negative feedback loops, I found that the world picks up the slack so those goals happen anyway in a magnified way, which is manifestation. What I'm trying to say is that if anyone is struggling with burnout, there's probably another cause which isn't apparent. For example, if you never have time to have a hobby anymore, it's probably time to set boundaries and communicate your needs. If you have no motivation for art or life goals, you might need to pencil active rest into your schedule, so that you give yourself a chance to become bored so you can hear your calling and discover a path to self-actualization. That peaceful source energy that's so abundant in nature is all but denied to us in the modern world where we can't even see the sky or hear a bird. If that all sounds impossible, then those self-imposed barriers are probably attached to emotional trauma. Like if you're sacrificing your peace for a loved one, it might be time to do some shadow work to understand why you're overprotecting them from their own human experience and dignity. This can look like making the opposite choice than the one you have been making, and observing how reality reconfigures, who's blocking healing, who's helping, etc. It might be painful in the short term, but as each positive feedback cycle engages, it gets easier, and the other side is almost always better than what came before.

paulmd 5y ago

side note but if you're suffering from chronic fatigue please also consider getting checked out for sleep apnea especially if you snore or are overweight (which again is not uncommon for programmers given we sit on our asses all day). It very well may not be the only problem, but it may be part of the problem. In the long term sleep apnea will fuck up your heart due to hypoxia and it can't be good for your brain or anything else. Plus sleep disorders seem to possibly be tied to Alzheimers (one theory is that REM sleep helps clear amyloid proteins). It's just bad news in general and it's widely under-diagnosed given how fat the american population is.

vorpalhex 5y ago

CFS is a diagnosis by exclusion. It may not be a particular disorder but instead acts as a catch all. CFS does not have a specific treatment. There are standard courses that are recommended, but there is no consensus on how to treat it. Usually treatment involves treating underlying disorders such as depression. Burnout is a stress response. Unlike CFS, you should improve with rest and taking time. Note that this doesn't mean you are going to go back to a hundred percent because you take a few days, but seeing improvement on vacation is a good indicator of burnout.

cjbgkagh 5y ago
The ‘wastebasket’ diagnosis is old. CFS/ME is it’s own thing and has been for some time.