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> Having read the leaked opinion, it has nothing at all to do with religious ideology, but rather separation of powers. Then I would ask that you trust people

> Having read the leaked opinion, it has nothing at all to do with religious ideology, but rather separation of powers. Then I would ask that you trust people to read a whole sentence. > States ought not ban medical procedures which are mainstream in major countries around the world on the basis of religious ideology, but unfortunately that's what's happening in states like Texas. Have you read the GOP platform for Texas?

yucky 5y ago
The Texas GOP has nothing to do with this Supreme Court decision though. Nobody disputes that religious people tend to be against abortion, but a lot of non-religious people are as well, just from a logical standpoint. There is no scientific basis to support the idea that a 38 week old fetus isn't viable or that it somehow only gains sentience once it passes through the birth canal. So then you have to draw a line somewhere, a line which will likely change over time as medical advancements occur - and so that is a matter for legislatures to handle. There just isn't a constitutional basis for Roe, and all defenses of it are based on emotion not logic.
- threatofrain 5y ago
  The Supreme Court's draft decision is all about states like Texas. I'm talking about the consequences which are to follow from their projected ruling. The question I pose is whether an individual ought be able to seek medical services which are mainstream across the west in consultation with their doctor. In accordance with the projected SCOTUS ruling, the answer for states like Texas is <no>. And the debate will not be along the lines of mainstream medical empiricism. As a democratic plurality, we ought demand that such state medical decisions be anchored on secular & empirical reasoning which groups from various religious backgrounds can understand, but this will not happen in states like Texas. What we do see in Texas is movement further away from the mainstream medical consensus and ethical standards of our western peers. As for a constitutional basis for the right to privacy, I am not a constitutional lawyer, and I do not pretend to be fluent with constitutional law, especially not enough to denigrate arguments as being emotional and illogical on the merits of the law. If you are a constitutional lawyer, then it would expedite the conversation if you presented your professional credentials. I am also not a medical professional. That is why I rely on my doctor to consult with professional bodies of science and medicine to deploy treatment in accordance with mainstream practice.
  - yucky 5y ago
    > If you are a constitutional lawyer, then it would expedite the conversation if you presented your professional credentials. We can both save time by reading the draft opinion, which was created by the foremost Constitutional experts in the world. In it, you'll see relying on a 50 year old decision that was loosely predicated on an unrelated right to dictate national abortion laws, is outmoded. Privacy doesn't cover the sentience of a 39 week old fetus for instance.. I actually think most people are in agreement on the issue, they just don't realize it. A tiny percentage of people support no regulations at all on abortion (ie even an elective abortion at 39 weeks with no medical necessity would be legal), and an equally tiny percentage on the other side who would even be against Plan B or abortions in the first few weeks. The problem though is then that means you have to draw a line somewhere on non-medically necessary abortions (8 weeks? 24 weeks? Something else) and that isn't something that the Roe decision is able to address, so we have to look to legislatures (state and Congress) to do their jobs.
    - threatofrain 5y ago
      From the beginning I have only been talking about how states will conduct themselves, and I have never pretended to have fluency in constitutional law. I follow Supreme Court opinions for the issues I care about, but that does not translate into an arrogance of denigrating the arguments of others as emotional and illogical. In accordance with that, I do not speak on whether SCOTUS is right or wrong. You talk about "reading" things, but this is my original post: > States ought not ban medical procedures which are mainstream in major countries around the world on the basis of religious ideology, but unfortunately that's what's happening in states like Texas. > This is a private matter between any individual and their doctor. > Of course rich individuals will still be able to fly to countries like UK or Germany to receive mainstream medicine backed by mainstream science. I have talked only on the consequences which are to follow in states like TX and how state medical policy ought be conducted — in accordance with mainstream medical practice as developed by national and western consensus among professional medical and scientific bodies. This is precisely the sort of state-level debate that you allege to support, and yet are completely ignoring.

yucky 5y ago

The Texas GOP has nothing to do with this Supreme Court decision though. Nobody disputes that religious people tend to be against abortion, but a lot of non-religious people are as well, just from a logical standpoint. There is no scientific basis to support the idea that a 38 week old fetus isn't viable or that it somehow only gains sentience once it passes through the birth canal. So then you have to draw a line somewhere, a line which will likely change over time as medical advancements occur - and so that is a matter for legislatures to handle. There just isn't a constitutional basis for Roe, and all defenses of it are based on emotion not logic.

threatofrain 5y ago
The Supreme Court's draft decision is all about states like Texas. I'm talking about the consequences which are to follow from their projected ruling. The question I pose is whether an individual ought be able to seek medical services which are mainstream across the west in consultation with their doctor. In accordance with the projected SCOTUS ruling, the answer for states like Texas is <no>. And the debate will not be along the lines of mainstream medical empiricism. As a democratic plurality, we ought demand that such state medical decisions be anchored on secular & empirical reasoning which groups from various religious backgrounds can understand, but this will not happen in states like Texas. What we do see in Texas is movement further away from the mainstream medical consensus and ethical standards of our western peers. As for a constitutional basis for the right to privacy, I am not a constitutional lawyer, and I do not pretend to be fluent with constitutional law, especially not enough to denigrate arguments as being emotional and illogical on the merits of the law. If you are a constitutional lawyer, then it would expedite the conversation if you presented your professional credentials. I am also not a medical professional. That is why I rely on my doctor to consult with professional bodies of science and medicine to deploy treatment in accordance with mainstream practice.
- yucky 5y ago
  > If you are a constitutional lawyer, then it would expedite the conversation if you presented your professional credentials. We can both save time by reading the draft opinion, which was created by the foremost Constitutional experts in the world. In it, you'll see relying on a 50 year old decision that was loosely predicated on an unrelated right to dictate national abortion laws, is outmoded. Privacy doesn't cover the sentience of a 39 week old fetus for instance.. I actually think most people are in agreement on the issue, they just don't realize it. A tiny percentage of people support no regulations at all on abortion (ie even an elective abortion at 39 weeks with no medical necessity would be legal), and an equally tiny percentage on the other side who would even be against Plan B or abortions in the first few weeks. The problem though is then that means you have to draw a line somewhere on non-medically necessary abortions (8 weeks? 24 weeks? Something else) and that isn't something that the Roe decision is able to address, so we have to look to legislatures (state and Congress) to do their jobs.
  - threatofrain 5y ago
    From the beginning I have only been talking about how states will conduct themselves, and I have never pretended to have fluency in constitutional law. I follow Supreme Court opinions for the issues I care about, but that does not translate into an arrogance of denigrating the arguments of others as emotional and illogical. In accordance with that, I do not speak on whether SCOTUS is right or wrong. You talk about "reading" things, but this is my original post: > States ought not ban medical procedures which are mainstream in major countries around the world on the basis of religious ideology, but unfortunately that's what's happening in states like Texas. > This is a private matter between any individual and their doctor. > Of course rich individuals will still be able to fly to countries like UK or Germany to receive mainstream medicine backed by mainstream science. I have talked only on the consequences which are to follow in states like TX and how state medical policy ought be conducted — in accordance with mainstream medical practice as developed by national and western consensus among professional medical and scientific bodies. This is precisely the sort of state-level debate that you allege to support, and yet are completely ignoring.