8 ms·

In other words: We blew five billion dollars on Apple Park. its a monument and a testament to the ineffable power and glory of our babel made manifest. You w

In other words: We blew five billion dollars on Apple Park. its a monument and a testament to the ineffable power and glory of our babel made manifest. You will attend this church of man in blessed reverence or you will find the cold streets at your feet.

kcplate 4y ago
This is exactly the case. Its been my observation that companies with substantial (owned) brick and mortar facilities tend to be the ones promoting return to work programs now. Apple definitely falls into this group, perhaps more than any other company.
- 3245457 4y ago
  https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-investments-office-workforce https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-investments-office... "Google will spend $9.5 billion on offices and data centers this year" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9764995/Facebook-developing-city-near-Silicon-Valley-HQ.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9764995/Facebook-de... "In addition to the housing and retail spaces, Facebook also plans to have 1.25 million square feet of new office, meeting and conference room space for the social media company." https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/29/this-is-the-first-look-at-nvidias-wild-new-750000-sq-ft-building/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/29/this-is-the-first-look-at-... "Nvidia is preparing a new, massive building in Santa Clara, CA and this is it. Called Voyager, it will be larger than the building Nvidia just finished constructing by 250,000 square feet." I could go on...
TigeriusKirk 4y ago
Happily, the streets are quite hot right now.
ethbr0 4y ago
I thought building Apple Park was just to keep Ives around a few more years.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  That's what I thought the Apple Car project was, so he had something to design that just wasn't a rounded rect with a black mirror
  - nacs 4y ago
    > just wasn't a rounded rect with a black mirror Are you challenging Ives to make a car that is a rounded rectangle with black mirror finish?
ChadNauseam 4y ago
I'm fully remote and love it, but let's not pretend that Apple engineers are at risk of homelessness if they decide they don't want to work at apple anymore
- belter 4y ago
  We could make a little joke about Foxconn always being an option, but the joke punchline is sold separately...
- curtastic2 4y ago
  Exactly. Some companies will be fully remote and some won’t. It’s easy to switch tech jobs in the Bay Area and you can pick one that suits you. Apple was always in person.
- kodah 4y ago
  Actually, I'd caution you there. There's roughly 25k Apple employees in the Bay area and Apple is a top payer in terms of salary. I've been shopping for homes in the Bay since I arrived and South Bay is easily 1M+ for a very tiny home. Oakland is about 600k+ and usually both markets require cash on top to get a home. That puts average mortgages (and rent) in the 3-5k range. If the average salary is limited by the number of companies that can pay more than 3-5k per paycheck (you want rent or mortgage to be 1/3 of your paycheck for risk purposes) then yes, Apple employees, depending on when they get their place to live, could already be over leveraged and at risk.
  - tmp_anon_22 4y ago
    > Apple is a top payer in terms of salary Is it though? Citation needed.
    - kodah 4y ago
      Beside the point, if they're not it makes matters worse. Last I checked though, Apple is a top payer - just not the top payer.
shuckles 4y ago
Are people who are convinced by this logic aware that the vast majority of Apple employees don’t work in Apple Park and instead in extremely unremarkable office buildings throughout suburban Bay Area?
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  If you accept that there is some marginal benefit in getting employees together physically, (and as someone with a remote position, I certainly do) then I think the logic of "we already spent the money, get in here" has a degree of truth to it.
  - brailsafe 4y ago
    I think if you frame that as an roi, the marginal benefit as a worker would really have to outweigh the cost. If I was being scouted by a company, which I'm not, the offer would have to be extremely compelling, because it's just not in me to commute and be on time for shit.
- bmitc 4y ago
  What are the percentages? Apple built Apple Park to not house the majority of employees?
  - Dunedan 4y ago
    > Still, Apple will continue to be based in Silicon Valley, where it has about 25,000 employees, including 12,000 employees in its loop-shaped headquarters. [1]: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/apple-will-spend-1-billion-open-3-000-employee-campus-n1265401 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/apple-will-sp...
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Would it surprise you to hear that, despite taking the mantle as the new HQ (because it’s the most impressive building) it’s just an incremental office build and people still work at one infinite loop?
uberduper 4y ago
Our great computers fill the hallowed halls.
paulcole 4y ago
So? It's somebody's decision to make and making bad decisions isn't a crime. It's not even clear it's a bad decision for Apple.
renewiltord 4y ago
It’s doubtful that a company as well-run as Apple falls for the sunk cost fallacy at this scale.
3245457 4y ago
Keep in mind Apple just returned 27 billion to shareholders [1] because presumably there was no better use for it. I doubt the cost of a 5 billion office park is causing them to loose sleep. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/04/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/04/apple-reports-second-...
yellow_lead 4y ago
And remember Apple offices are on top of toxic waste dumps / superfund sites! [1] https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2021/12/apple-poisoned-me-physically-mentally-spiritually/ https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2021/12/apple-poisoned-me-... [2] https://disasterarea.home.blog/2019/07/12/apple-headquarters-on-the-intersil-dtkm-sl720641214-epa-superfund-site-daycare-banned/ https://disasterarea.home.blog/2019/07/12/apple-headquarters...

kcplate 4y ago

This is exactly the case. Its been my observation that companies with substantial (owned) brick and mortar facilities tend to be the ones promoting return to work programs now. Apple definitely falls into this group, perhaps more than any other company.

3245457 4y ago
https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-investments-office-workforce https://www.protocol.com/bulletins/google-investments-office... "Google will spend $9.5 billion on offices and data centers this year" https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9764995/Facebook-developing-city-near-Silicon-Valley-HQ.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9764995/Facebook-de... "In addition to the housing and retail spaces, Facebook also plans to have 1.25 million square feet of new office, meeting and conference room space for the social media company." https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/29/this-is-the-first-look-at-nvidias-wild-new-750000-sq-ft-building/ https://techcrunch.com/2018/05/29/this-is-the-first-look-at-... "Nvidia is preparing a new, massive building in Santa Clara, CA and this is it. Called Voyager, it will be larger than the building Nvidia just finished constructing by 250,000 square feet." I could go on...

TigeriusKirk 4y ago

Happily, the streets are quite hot right now.

ethbr0 4y ago

I thought building Apple Park was just to keep Ives around a few more years.

kalleboo 4y ago
That's what I thought the Apple Car project was, so he had something to design that just wasn't a rounded rect with a black mirror
- nacs 4y ago
  > just wasn't a rounded rect with a black mirror Are you challenging Ives to make a car that is a rounded rectangle with black mirror finish?

ChadNauseam 4y ago

I'm fully remote and love it, but let's not pretend that Apple engineers are at risk of homelessness if they decide they don't want to work at apple anymore

belter 4y ago
We could make a little joke about Foxconn always being an option, but the joke punchline is sold separately...
curtastic2 4y ago
Exactly. Some companies will be fully remote and some won’t. It’s easy to switch tech jobs in the Bay Area and you can pick one that suits you. Apple was always in person.
kodah 4y ago
Actually, I'd caution you there. There's roughly 25k Apple employees in the Bay area and Apple is a top payer in terms of salary. I've been shopping for homes in the Bay since I arrived and South Bay is easily 1M+ for a very tiny home. Oakland is about 600k+ and usually both markets require cash on top to get a home. That puts average mortgages (and rent) in the 3-5k range. If the average salary is limited by the number of companies that can pay more than 3-5k per paycheck (you want rent or mortgage to be 1/3 of your paycheck for risk purposes) then yes, Apple employees, depending on when they get their place to live, could already be over leveraged and at risk.
- tmp_anon_22 4y ago
  > Apple is a top payer in terms of salary Is it though? Citation needed.
  - kodah 4y ago
    Beside the point, if they're not it makes matters worse. Last I checked though, Apple is a top payer - just not the top payer.

shuckles 4y ago

Are people who are convinced by this logic aware that the vast majority of Apple employees don’t work in Apple Park and instead in extremely unremarkable office buildings throughout suburban Bay Area?

BobbyJo 4y ago
If you accept that there is some marginal benefit in getting employees together physically, (and as someone with a remote position, I certainly do) then I think the logic of "we already spent the money, get in here" has a degree of truth to it.
- brailsafe 4y ago
  I think if you frame that as an roi, the marginal benefit as a worker would really have to outweigh the cost. If I was being scouted by a company, which I'm not, the offer would have to be extremely compelling, because it's just not in me to commute and be on time for shit.
bmitc 4y ago
What are the percentages? Apple built Apple Park to not house the majority of employees?
- Dunedan 4y ago
  > Still, Apple will continue to be based in Silicon Valley, where it has about 25,000 employees, including 12,000 employees in its loop-shaped headquarters. [1]: https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/apple-will-spend-1-billion-open-3-000-employee-campus-n1265401 https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/apple-will-sp...
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  Would it surprise you to hear that, despite taking the mantle as the new HQ (because it’s the most impressive building) it’s just an incremental office build and people still work at one infinite loop?

uberduper 4y ago

Our great computers fill the hallowed halls.

paulcole 4y ago

So? It's somebody's decision to make and making bad decisions isn't a crime. It's not even clear it's a bad decision for Apple.

renewiltord 4y ago

It’s doubtful that a company as well-run as Apple falls for the sunk cost fallacy at this scale.

3245457 4y ago

Keep in mind Apple just returned 27 billion to shareholders [1] because presumably there was no better use for it. I doubt the cost of a 5 billion office park is causing them to loose sleep. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/04/apple-reports-second-quarter-results/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2022/04/apple-reports-second-...

yellow_lead 4y ago

And remember Apple offices are on top of toxic waste dumps / superfund sites! [1] https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2021/12/apple-poisoned-me-physically-mentally-spiritually/ https://www.indexoncensorship.org/2021/12/apple-poisoned-me-... [2] https://disasterarea.home.blog/2019/07/12/apple-headquarters-on-the-intersil-dtkm-sl720641214-epa-superfund-site-daycare-banned/ https://disasterarea.home.blog/2019/07/12/apple-headquarters...