5 ms·

A company is willfully behaving unethically, and someone chooses to vote with their wallet - I'm surprised that this is an argument you don't get. Granted, diff

A company is willfully behaving unethically, and someone chooses to vote with their wallet - I'm surprised that this is an argument you don't get. Granted, different people have different ideologies, triggers, etc, but the principle is fairly common.

anon2020dot00 4y ago
The dispute is in who is in the wrong and I believe only a judge can determine the facts. I presume innocence until proven guilty. For example, with Google vs Oracle on the Java API usage, Apple vs Epic Games on the App Store or even with Depp vs Amber Heard, there is no clear black-and-white. Especially with so-called GPL violations (which seems to be a grey area), there is even accusations that Github Co-Pilot is in violation, and so, I think best thing to do is for a judge or for a legal authority to make a decision instead of cancel culture.
- danielbarla 4y ago
  Fair enough. I am also generally against jumping to conclusions and mob justice, though I am not sure if a GPL2 violation is such a gray area in this format. It's a device shipped to a user, and the license states they need to be provided with the source on request. It's something the company should have addressed in the intervening time.
- mtlynch 4y ago
  It makes sense to assume innocence until proven guilty when the facts are murky, but this seems to be straightforward. They modified GPL code and refused to honor the license by releasing the source. If you witnessed someone snatch a wallet out of a child's hand and run away, you can reasonably conclude the snatcher is a thief. You wouldn't have to wait for a legal authority to tell you what you witnessed was a crime.
  - anon2020dot00 4y ago
    Given that this seems to be so straight-forward, why won't someone file a legal case or anything? (genuine question because for me, they're just calling for mob-justice otherwise)
    - mtlynch 4y ago
      Given that this seems to be so straight-forward, why won't someone file a legal case or anything? It's costly to file a lawsuit. GP isn't calling for mob anything. They just stated that they're personally boycotting the company.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      IANAL, but AIUI: The current understanding is that such a suit would have to be filed by a copyright owner (so a kernel dev), not the user. There is a current lawsuit (https://wptavern.com/software-freedom-conservancy-takes-on-vizio-in-lawsuit-alleging-gpl-violations https://wptavern.com/software-freedom-conservancy-takes-on-v...) challenging this, though.
schwartzworld 4y ago
The sad truth is that if you're only going to buy from ethical companies, you are probably SOL, especially when it comes to mobile devices. We all have our different lines in the sand. It's not possible to ethically consume. Cell phones all use cobalt, which is mined by hand exposing its miners (many of whom are children) to radiation, and nobody votes with their wallet against that. I'm not saying it's right, just making a point that we all trade ethics for convenience when it suits us. Onyx makes a product that just doesn't exist elsewhere, and there aren't much better alternatives for affordable e-ink. You could always jailbreak your kindle if you somehow think that Amazon is a more ethical company.
- yesbabyyes 4y ago
  > Cell phones all use cobalt, which is mined by hand exposing its miners (many of whom are children) to radiation, and nobody votes with their wallet against that. Fairphone users do. We may be a small subset, but we're here, and I hope by showing a possible alternative supply chain we can show larger manufacturers that alternatives exist. Posted from my Fairphone 4 https://www.fairphone.com/ https://www.fairphone.com/
  - netizen-936824 4y ago
    Too bad fairphone isn't available for US networks. I wanted to buy one but they don't make it feasible
    - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
      https://www.kimovil.com/en/frequency-checker/US/fairphone-4 https://www.kimovil.com/en/frequency-checker/US/fairphone-4 seems to claim that it should work; am I misreading that? (I would also very much like to know this before I consider buying one)
      - netizen-936824 4y ago
        It does appear to work on some select US bands, like the 3 when I checked. There's also the problem of actually purchasing one, the fairphone website only ships to EU

anon2020dot00 4y ago

The dispute is in who is in the wrong and I believe only a judge can determine the facts. I presume innocence until proven guilty. For example, with Google vs Oracle on the Java API usage, Apple vs Epic Games on the App Store or even with Depp vs Amber Heard, there is no clear black-and-white. Especially with so-called GPL violations (which seems to be a grey area), there is even accusations that Github Co-Pilot is in violation, and so, I think best thing to do is for a judge or for a legal authority to make a decision instead of cancel culture.

danielbarla 4y ago
Fair enough. I am also generally against jumping to conclusions and mob justice, though I am not sure if a GPL2 violation is such a gray area in this format. It's a device shipped to a user, and the license states they need to be provided with the source on request. It's something the company should have addressed in the intervening time.
mtlynch 4y ago
It makes sense to assume innocence until proven guilty when the facts are murky, but this seems to be straightforward. They modified GPL code and refused to honor the license by releasing the source. If you witnessed someone snatch a wallet out of a child's hand and run away, you can reasonably conclude the snatcher is a thief. You wouldn't have to wait for a legal authority to tell you what you witnessed was a crime.
- anon2020dot00 4y ago
  Given that this seems to be so straight-forward, why won't someone file a legal case or anything? (genuine question because for me, they're just calling for mob-justice otherwise)
  - mtlynch 4y ago
    Given that this seems to be so straight-forward, why won't someone file a legal case or anything? It's costly to file a lawsuit. GP isn't calling for mob anything. They just stated that they're personally boycotting the company.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    IANAL, but AIUI: The current understanding is that such a suit would have to be filed by a copyright owner (so a kernel dev), not the user. There is a current lawsuit (https://wptavern.com/software-freedom-conservancy-takes-on-vizio-in-lawsuit-alleging-gpl-violations https://wptavern.com/software-freedom-conservancy-takes-on-v...) challenging this, though.

schwartzworld 4y ago

The sad truth is that if you're only going to buy from ethical companies, you are probably SOL, especially when it comes to mobile devices. We all have our different lines in the sand. It's not possible to ethically consume. Cell phones all use cobalt, which is mined by hand exposing its miners (many of whom are children) to radiation, and nobody votes with their wallet against that. I'm not saying it's right, just making a point that we all trade ethics for convenience when it suits us. Onyx makes a product that just doesn't exist elsewhere, and there aren't much better alternatives for affordable e-ink. You could always jailbreak your kindle if you somehow think that Amazon is a more ethical company.

yesbabyyes 4y ago
> Cell phones all use cobalt, which is mined by hand exposing its miners (many of whom are children) to radiation, and nobody votes with their wallet against that. Fairphone users do. We may be a small subset, but we're here, and I hope by showing a possible alternative supply chain we can show larger manufacturers that alternatives exist. Posted from my Fairphone 4 https://www.fairphone.com/ https://www.fairphone.com/
- netizen-936824 4y ago
  Too bad fairphone isn't available for US networks. I wanted to buy one but they don't make it feasible
  - yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
    https://www.kimovil.com/en/frequency-checker/US/fairphone-4 https://www.kimovil.com/en/frequency-checker/US/fairphone-4 seems to claim that it should work; am I misreading that? (I would also very much like to know this before I consider buying one)
    - netizen-936824 4y ago
      It does appear to work on some select US bands, like the 3 when I checked. There's also the problem of actually purchasing one, the fairphone website only ships to EU