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In my case, it's not that I perceive extroverts to be listening less, I just don't believe that in most cases they care about what I'm saying. Extroverts seem

In my case, it's not that I perceive extroverts to be listening less, I just don't believe that in most cases they care about what I'm saying. Extroverts seem to me to live for the interaction, not for the content of the interaction. To me this is the essence of small talk - what is said isn't the point; it's the fact that words are being exchanged that gets and keeps the juices flowing. Related to this, I have never believed that (at least extreme) extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. They tend to see us as lacking something vital (this constant social exchange of what is often mostly meaningless information). Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug.

yowlingcat 4y ago
> Related to this, I have never believed that (at least extreme) extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. > Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug. These sound like the nihilistic words of neither an introvert or an extrovert but a misanthrope. I wonder if you recognize the irony intrinsic in stereotyping people into the categorically questionable binary separation between introvert and extrovert in a manner that favors and gets revenge on those "pesky" extroverts, as it's exactly the kind of treatment that the wrong members (who usually wear it with undue pride) of the "extrovert" apply destructively and quite regularly. My opinion is that the impulse to accurately model the behavior of people this broadly, belies an inability to accurately model any of it at all.
- walnutclosefarm 4y ago
  I don't see where you think I'm getting revenge on "pesky extroverts." I'm trying to understand them. And it's a useful model, e.g., to explain why for my wife's closest friend, Covid lockdown and social distancing caused enormous anxiety and even pain, whereas I experienced them as a serendipitous release from social overstimulation. He experience withdrawal; I experienced a haven. That doesn't mean I don't respect him, or like him, or that I want to change him. It just means I understand that he has a genuine need that I do not. That's not to say I might not also be a misanthrope. You're not the first to venture such a diagnosis. I most certainly am not a nihilist, however.
gist 4y ago
> Extroverts seem to me to live for the interaction, not for the content of the interaction. To me this is the essence of small talk - what is said isn't the point; it's the fact that words are being exchanged that gets and keeps the juices flowing. This is also true from my observation as well. I would go a step further and say there doesn't even need to be an exchange as some extroverts simply like to have words come from their mouth without regard to what is said in reply to those words (which is what you are saying but put a more exact way). To be clear this doesn't mean 'all' nothing is 'all'. But the pattern is what I have observed for sure. > extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. They tend to see us as lacking something vital (this constant social exchange of what is often mostly meaningless information). I Again I agree. It seems to be accepted that the right way to be is to be social and to interact and if you don't do that you are 'off' in some way. ie 'Not normal'. > Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug. The reason I would say that introverts understand is because they are taking the time to observe and think and not so much what they will say in the interaction. To illustrate the point take the experience of Dan Ariely: https://www.thecut.com/2015/07/terrible-accident-led-to-dan-arielys-career.html https://www.thecut.com/2015/07/terrible-accident-led-to-dan-... "He spent the next three years in and out of hospitals and surgeries, and, he writes, “since I had little else to do and badly needed distraction, I began to notice and record things.” " If you are talking you are less likely to notice than if you are not talking. (I am sure others can bring up apocryphal examples of the same point that I am making).

yowlingcat 4y ago

> Related to this, I have never believed that (at least extreme) extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. > Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug. These sound like the nihilistic words of neither an introvert or an extrovert but a misanthrope. I wonder if you recognize the irony intrinsic in stereotyping people into the categorically questionable binary separation between introvert and extrovert in a manner that favors and gets revenge on those "pesky" extroverts, as it's exactly the kind of treatment that the wrong members (who usually wear it with undue pride) of the "extrovert" apply destructively and quite regularly. My opinion is that the impulse to accurately model the behavior of people this broadly, belies an inability to accurately model any of it at all.

walnutclosefarm 4y ago
I don't see where you think I'm getting revenge on "pesky extroverts." I'm trying to understand them. And it's a useful model, e.g., to explain why for my wife's closest friend, Covid lockdown and social distancing caused enormous anxiety and even pain, whereas I experienced them as a serendipitous release from social overstimulation. He experience withdrawal; I experienced a haven. That doesn't mean I don't respect him, or like him, or that I want to change him. It just means I understand that he has a genuine need that I do not. That's not to say I might not also be a misanthrope. You're not the first to venture such a diagnosis. I most certainly am not a nihilist, however.

gist 4y ago

> Extroverts seem to me to live for the interaction, not for the content of the interaction. To me this is the essence of small talk - what is said isn't the point; it's the fact that words are being exchanged that gets and keeps the juices flowing. This is also true from my observation as well. I would go a step further and say there doesn't even need to be an exchange as some extroverts simply like to have words come from their mouth without regard to what is said in reply to those words (which is what you are saying but put a more exact way). To be clear this doesn't mean 'all' nothing is 'all'. But the pattern is what I have observed for sure. > extroverts understand introverts in any deep sense. They tend to see us as lacking something vital (this constant social exchange of what is often mostly meaningless information). I Again I agree. It seems to be accepted that the right way to be is to be social and to interact and if you don't do that you are 'off' in some way. ie 'Not normal'. > Introverts do understand extroverts though - we know the interactions are feeding a need in them not unlike the need for a fix of a someone addicted to an addictive, although not enormously harmful, drug. The reason I would say that introverts understand is because they are taking the time to observe and think and not so much what they will say in the interaction. To illustrate the point take the experience of Dan Ariely: https://www.thecut.com/2015/07/terrible-accident-led-to-dan-arielys-career.html https://www.thecut.com/2015/07/terrible-accident-led-to-dan-... "He spent the next three years in and out of hospitals and surgeries, and, he writes, “since I had little else to do and badly needed distraction, I began to notice and record things.” " If you are talking you are less likely to notice than if you are not talking. (I am sure others can bring up apocryphal examples of the same point that I am making).