4 ms·

Canada is a very different case: electricity sources are 2/3 renewables, mainly hydro (~60%). Nuclear: ~15%

arcticbull 4y ago
Canada is a big place. Depends on the area. Ontario, for instance, is almost 60% nuclear. [1] It has by far the lowest CO2 emissions per kWh in the country. Remember, Ontario is 40% of Canada's population. [1] https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-ontario.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr...
- notmars 4y ago
  https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-quebec.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr... maybe?
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Hydro is tough for a lot of reasons. It's pretty ecologically devastating, flooding large regions and turning fish into mulch. It can also produce as much climate impact as a fossil fuel plant - or more - largely due to methane and CO2 emissions from the newly flooded land. [1] I'm not 100% sure where the Quebec hydro mix actually lands due to the significant variability on a plant-by-plant basis, and I don't know if that's factored in or how it was amortized in the StatsCan link - this wholistic analysis is fairly new afaik. I trust StatsCan though, so your point is well made. [1] https://blogs.edf.org/energyexchange/2019/11/15/long-considered-a-clean-energy-source-hydropower-can-actually-be-bad-for-climate/ https://blogs.edf.org/energyexchange/2019/11/15/long-conside...
    - natmaka 4y ago
      There are rules (releasing water...) and equipment aiming at reducing harm to aquatic life, even worst cases (migratory fishes). https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/habitat-conservation/improving-fish-migration-hydropower-dams https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/habitat-conservation... "the rate of emissions per unit of electric generation from hydropower (excluding tropical reservoirs) is much lower than for fossil fuel technologies." Source: https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1209/ML12090A850.pdf https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1209/ML12090A850.pdf
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        This is the study I was referring to re: GHG impact. It depends where and most importantly how long you run the plant. [1] I'm not really opposed to hydro, I only responded because the impact of the creation of reservoirs is likely not factored into the headline numbers. [1] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.est.9b05083 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.est.9b05083
    - powcontech 4y ago
      Do you have a source hydro turbines “turning fish in to mulch”? I’ve been around lots of hydro projects and the main hazards for fish seemed to be either dewatering of habitat due to turbines reducing flows too quickly or I heard it is bad for them if the dam uses the spill way and makes the water all aerated
      - arcticbull 4y ago
        I was being a bit glib there, I just meant that it was bad for the fish. My understanding is the average mortality rate for fish passing through a dam is 1 in 5. [1] [1] https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/hydropower-dams-make-fish-friendly-splash https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga...
- lultimouomo 4y ago
  Do people in Ontario use way less electricity than the rest of the country? If 40% of the people gets 60% of electricity from nuclear, I would expect the whole country to get at least 24% of electricity from nuclear.
  - rich_sasha 4y ago
    Canada has a lot of mining industry, and presumably not in Ontario, perhaps it uses more energy than people?
    - s0rce 4y ago
      And a fair bit of hugely energy intensive aluminum refining in Quebec (mostly hydro power)
- natmaka 4y ago
  As the comparison was set with Australia (as a whole nation), I considered Canada as such.
stormbrew 4y ago
This is a little deceptive I think. Electricity only makes up about 17% of canada's energy use, with 75% or so of our total energy demand coming from carbon sources[1]. We mostly use natural gas for heating, while in many other places in the world it's more likely electricity is gonna be used for indoor climate control (AC, heat pumps, even resistive heating).
- natmaka 4y ago
  Yes, as electricity only globally provides at best about 25% of final energy all this is misleading when it comes to the 'big picture'. Usage profiles are indeed pertinent: Australians probably don't need dissipate energy in order for heating as Canadians do, but even this perspective isn't easy to grasp: heating thanks to gridpower is a thing in some nations without really cold seasons, France being one. However the subject here is a gridpower-producing nuclear reactor, this IMHO sets a perimeter.

Canada is a big place. Depends on the area. Ontario, for instance, is almost 60% nuclear. [1] It has by far the lowest CO2 emissions per kWh in the country. Remember, Ontario is 40% of Canada's population. [1] https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-ontario.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr...

notmars 4y ago
https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles/provincial-territorial-energy-profiles-quebec.html https://www.cer-rec.gc.ca/en/data-analysis/energy-markets/pr... maybe?
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Hydro is tough for a lot of reasons. It's pretty ecologically devastating, flooding large regions and turning fish into mulch. It can also produce as much climate impact as a fossil fuel plant - or more - largely due to methane and CO2 emissions from the newly flooded land. [1] I'm not 100% sure where the Quebec hydro mix actually lands due to the significant variability on a plant-by-plant basis, and I don't know if that's factored in or how it was amortized in the StatsCan link - this wholistic analysis is fairly new afaik. I trust StatsCan though, so your point is well made. [1] https://blogs.edf.org/energyexchange/2019/11/15/long-considered-a-clean-energy-source-hydropower-can-actually-be-bad-for-climate/ https://blogs.edf.org/energyexchange/2019/11/15/long-conside...
  - natmaka 4y ago
    There are rules (releasing water...) and equipment aiming at reducing harm to aquatic life, even worst cases (migratory fishes). https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/habitat-conservation/improving-fish-migration-hydropower-dams https://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/national/habitat-conservation... "the rate of emissions per unit of electric generation from hydropower (excluding tropical reservoirs) is much lower than for fossil fuel technologies." Source: https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1209/ML12090A850.pdf https://www.nrc.gov/docs/ML1209/ML12090A850.pdf
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      This is the study I was referring to re: GHG impact. It depends where and most importantly how long you run the plant. [1] I'm not really opposed to hydro, I only responded because the impact of the creation of reservoirs is likely not factored into the headline numbers. [1] https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.est.9b05083 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.est.9b05083
  - powcontech 4y ago
    Do you have a source hydro turbines “turning fish in to mulch”? I’ve been around lots of hydro projects and the main hazards for fish seemed to be either dewatering of habitat due to turbines reducing flows too quickly or I heard it is bad for them if the dam uses the spill way and makes the water all aerated
    - arcticbull 4y ago
      I was being a bit glib there, I just meant that it was bad for the fish. My understanding is the average mortality rate for fish passing through a dam is 1 in 5. [1] [1] https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/hydropower-dams-make-fish-friendly-splash https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-maga...
lultimouomo 4y ago
Do people in Ontario use way less electricity than the rest of the country? If 40% of the people gets 60% of electricity from nuclear, I would expect the whole country to get at least 24% of electricity from nuclear.
- rich_sasha 4y ago
  Canada has a lot of mining industry, and presumably not in Ontario, perhaps it uses more energy than people?
  - s0rce 4y ago
    And a fair bit of hugely energy intensive aluminum refining in Quebec (mostly hydro power)
natmaka 4y ago
As the comparison was set with Australia (as a whole nation), I considered Canada as such.

stormbrew 4y ago

This is a little deceptive I think. Electricity only makes up about 17% of canada's energy use, with 75% or so of our total energy demand coming from carbon sources[1]. We mostly use natural gas for heating, while in many other places in the world it's more likely electricity is gonna be used for indoor climate control (AC, heat pumps, even resistive heating).

natmaka 4y ago
Yes, as electricity only globally provides at best about 25% of final energy all this is misleading when it comes to the 'big picture'. Usage profiles are indeed pertinent: Australians probably don't need dissipate energy in order for heating as Canadians do, but even this perspective isn't easy to grasp: heating thanks to gridpower is a thing in some nations without really cold seasons, France being one. However the subject here is a gridpower-producing nuclear reactor, this IMHO sets a perimeter.