4 ms·

FYI: This just takes abortion out of the purview of the federal government and makes it a states issue, as the constitution intended.

jdkee 4y ago
This cannot be overstated enough.
autoexec 4y ago
You say "just" but the fact is that no matter where in the country you are, being an American citizen should guarantee a person certain rights, such as access to critical medical care, or not being forced to give birth to your rapist's child. Several states have already demonstrated that they don't want their population to have those rights and even before this women's lives were endangered by their attempts to close clinics and limit their reproductive freedoms. What we're bound to end up with are entire states of second class citizens who don't have the rights and protections of the rest of the nation. Where traveling within the country puts some of your most basic freedoms in question every time you cross a state border. Where your legal actions in one state can get you arrested or charged with a crime in another. There are very good reasons to have federal laws to keep a baseline standard of what rights and freedoms an American citizen has. That this right has been overturned at a federal level will absolutely cause more suffering than it prevents. Even in those states where people will now be forced to live under religious law abortion will continue to take place just as it always has. The wealthy will simply fly to where it's accessible with little risk and the poor will resort to more dangerous methods just as they did before the right to seek an abortion was protected by federal law.
- TrispusAttucks 4y ago
  Fortunately our nation is founded on a constitution and rule of law so that what "should" and "shouldn't" can be codified appropriately by the people.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    > so that what "should" and "shouldn't" can be codified appropriately by the people. Sadly that's been repeatedly shown to be false. What we actually have is a system where the average person has zero influence on policy and a very small number of very wealthy people dictate what "should" and "shouldn't" be. The vast majority of Americans support the right to an abortion and yet here we have a small number of people taking that right from them.
    - Ancapistani 4y ago
      > The vast majority of Americans support the right to an abortion For any reasonable definition of “right”, this simply isn’t true. 57% of Americans believe abortion “should be legal overall in all or most cases” - and only 23% believe it “should be legal in all cases” Less than a third - 28% - of Democrats believe abortion should be legal during the third trimester. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/majority-of-americans-support-abortion-poll-finds---but-not-later-in-the-pregnancy/?sh=72953c550744 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/majorit...
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Fortunately our nation is founded on a constitution and rule of law so that what "should" and "shouldn't" can be codified appropriately by the people. The governing and electoral structure is very much engineered to prevent “the people” from having an effective voice is codifying should and shouldn't, despite the occasional mouthing of platitudes relating to popular sovereignty and democratic rule by elites.
- randomtwiddler 4y ago
  You can't have a right that is also a service. Services are based on voluntary exchange.
  - slenk 4y ago
    You should have the right to do what you want with your body. Yes vaccines too. And I am vaccinated
    - Auracle 4y ago
      Right, but the argument from many is that it isn’t just your body. And if I should have the right to do what I want with my body, why aren’t all drugs legalized? Why can’t I legally kill myself? You’re probably saying “that should be legal!” But the Supreme Court has never made that leap, even though they did in the case of abortion.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    You can have a right to service. Even if it's just being able to sit a lunch counter, or attend a school. You can also have a right to seek or provide medical care. Those rights are about to be taken from many of us.
    - randomtwiddler 4y ago
      This gets really messy if the service is simply unavailable for whatever reason. If it's your right then should the government get involved in coercion? Mandates? If it's unaffordable, price controls? Calling a service a right is fraught with moral hazards.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
that means that USA is not a "great civilized country", "a great democracy", "the land of the free", but a place that depending on where you were born or actually reside, can look much more like North Korea. Good to know.

jdkee 4y ago

This cannot be overstated enough.

autoexec 4y ago

You say "just" but the fact is that no matter where in the country you are, being an American citizen should guarantee a person certain rights, such as access to critical medical care, or not being forced to give birth to your rapist's child. Several states have already demonstrated that they don't want their population to have those rights and even before this women's lives were endangered by their attempts to close clinics and limit their reproductive freedoms. What we're bound to end up with are entire states of second class citizens who don't have the rights and protections of the rest of the nation. Where traveling within the country puts some of your most basic freedoms in question every time you cross a state border. Where your legal actions in one state can get you arrested or charged with a crime in another. There are very good reasons to have federal laws to keep a baseline standard of what rights and freedoms an American citizen has. That this right has been overturned at a federal level will absolutely cause more suffering than it prevents. Even in those states where people will now be forced to live under religious law abortion will continue to take place just as it always has. The wealthy will simply fly to where it's accessible with little risk and the poor will resort to more dangerous methods just as they did before the right to seek an abortion was protected by federal law.

TrispusAttucks 4y ago
Fortunately our nation is founded on a constitution and rule of law so that what "should" and "shouldn't" can be codified appropriately by the people.
- autoexec 4y ago
  > so that what "should" and "shouldn't" can be codified appropriately by the people. Sadly that's been repeatedly shown to be false. What we actually have is a system where the average person has zero influence on policy and a very small number of very wealthy people dictate what "should" and "shouldn't" be. The vast majority of Americans support the right to an abortion and yet here we have a small number of people taking that right from them.
  - Ancapistani 4y ago
    > The vast majority of Americans support the right to an abortion For any reasonable definition of “right”, this simply isn’t true. 57% of Americans believe abortion “should be legal overall in all or most cases” - and only 23% believe it “should be legal in all cases” Less than a third - 28% - of Democrats believe abortion should be legal during the third trimester. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/majority-of-americans-support-abortion-poll-finds---but-not-later-in-the-pregnancy/?sh=72953c550744 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2021/06/25/majorit...
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Fortunately our nation is founded on a constitution and rule of law so that what "should" and "shouldn't" can be codified appropriately by the people. The governing and electoral structure is very much engineered to prevent “the people” from having an effective voice is codifying should and shouldn't, despite the occasional mouthing of platitudes relating to popular sovereignty and democratic rule by elites.
randomtwiddler 4y ago
You can't have a right that is also a service. Services are based on voluntary exchange.
- slenk 4y ago
  You should have the right to do what you want with your body. Yes vaccines too. And I am vaccinated
  - Auracle 4y ago
    Right, but the argument from many is that it isn’t just your body. And if I should have the right to do what I want with my body, why aren’t all drugs legalized? Why can’t I legally kill myself? You’re probably saying “that should be legal!” But the Supreme Court has never made that leap, even though they did in the case of abortion.
- autoexec 4y ago
  You can have a right to service. Even if it's just being able to sit a lunch counter, or attend a school. You can also have a right to seek or provide medical care. Those rights are about to be taken from many of us.
  - randomtwiddler 4y ago
    This gets really messy if the service is simply unavailable for whatever reason. If it's your right then should the government get involved in coercion? Mandates? If it's unaffordable, price controls? Calling a service a right is fraught with moral hazards.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

that means that USA is not a "great civilized country", "a great democracy", "the land of the free", but a place that depending on where you were born or actually reside, can look much more like North Korea. Good to know.