4 ms·

Did I miss what the old California Dream was? Seems like the word doesn't even appear in the article. Most of California's problems are Popular Place Problems™

Did I miss what the old California Dream was? Seems like the word doesn't even appear in the article. Most of California's problems are Popular Place Problems™. Seeing it become marginally less popular as a result seems more like part of natural limiting mechanisms than it does a major sign of worry. But it does worry me that a lot of places seem to think of the issues as "California" problems rather than problems with underlying dynamics that could just as show up where they are, as soon as they become a Popular Place.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
California's high school graduation requirement are inferior to Alabama's due to California's popularity?
- danans 4y ago
  That's a very cherry-picked statistic seemingly brought in to distract from the discussion. Many states that are both more and less "popular" than CA have lower high school graduation rates than CA. Places like Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Louisiana, Maryland, Alaska. The GP was clearly talking about problems like housing unaffordability, traffic, displacement, water scarcity, etc. 1. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_226.60.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_226.60.a...
ggm 4y ago
The drive west has had waves of california dreaming. There was the blue sky goldrush fantasy. There was the migrant worker, dustbowl fantasy. There was the Kerouac post-war freedom fantasy. There was the post Kerouac, Kesey/Leary drugs fantasy. There was the Gerry Brown Fantasy. South Park stopped at EV owners sniffing their own farts. I think the techbro fantasy and the return of arts from Portland to LA has driven another shift in the story. Snowbirds from Canada are another kind of California Dream.
- thghtihadanacct 4y ago
  fantasy is the right word. It aint all milk and honey out here
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > and the return of arts from Portland to LA Any good readings on this?
  - ggm 4y ago
    https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/may/12/los-angeles-artists-a-bigger-splash https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/may/12/los-ang... maybe?
TimPC 4y ago
California seems more popular than it is because it feels like practically the entire state is zoned for single family homes. If it had sane housing policy it would be doing a far better job relative to whatever demand it has on that front. Most states have more slightly more sane zoning so would be less badly hit by most of the problems that directly result from California’s extreme form of NIMBYism.
- thghtihadanacct 4y ago
  As someone that is stuck out here already with dwindling resources ... what obligation have I to help provide more houses to encourage growth in a resource poor environment?
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    Who's asking you to help? All you need to do is mind your own business on your own property, and leave other people alone to build the housing they need on theirs.
- wwweston 4y ago
  I've watching some municipalities hit their geographic constraints in a few different states for a while now, and what I think I've noticed is that almost nobody gets higher density construction ahead of demand -- if there is anywhere that actually has "sane housing policy", it probably overlaps with places that have had demand outstrip supply for over a hundred years. A good chunk of the rest of America is used to being rural, semi-rural, or suburban. Especially places that saw most of their growth since automobiles became household near-essentials. Those places tends towards single family residential zoning too and are either seeing California-like sprawl or California-like price increases. Especially to the degree that market dynamics involve as much asset-first treatment of real estate as housing-first treatment. But I'd certainly love to hear about places that represent successful exceptions. Especially if they beat certain dynamics where construction also naturally follows demand (capital usually prefers to follow demand rather than lead it).
  - deleted 4y ago
xtiansimon 4y ago
“Did I miss what the old California Dream was?” I grew up in NorCal, and I had the same reaction. That said, I’m in the NYC metro area now and there is a California dream here, and it always starts with the ‘better’, sunnier and warmer weather.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

California's high school graduation requirement are inferior to Alabama's due to California's popularity?

danans 4y ago
That's a very cherry-picked statistic seemingly brought in to distract from the discussion. Many states that are both more and less "popular" than CA have lower high school graduation rates than CA. Places like Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Louisiana, Maryland, Alaska. The GP was clearly talking about problems like housing unaffordability, traffic, displacement, water scarcity, etc. 1. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_226.60.asp https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d19/tables/dt19_226.60.a...

ggm 4y ago

The drive west has had waves of california dreaming. There was the blue sky goldrush fantasy. There was the migrant worker, dustbowl fantasy. There was the Kerouac post-war freedom fantasy. There was the post Kerouac, Kesey/Leary drugs fantasy. There was the Gerry Brown Fantasy. South Park stopped at EV owners sniffing their own farts. I think the techbro fantasy and the return of arts from Portland to LA has driven another shift in the story. Snowbirds from Canada are another kind of California Dream.

thghtihadanacct 4y ago
fantasy is the right word. It aint all milk and honey out here
the_only_law 4y ago
> and the return of arts from Portland to LA Any good readings on this?
- ggm 4y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/may/12/los-angeles-artists-a-bigger-splash https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2015/may/12/los-ang... maybe?

TimPC 4y ago

California seems more popular than it is because it feels like practically the entire state is zoned for single family homes. If it had sane housing policy it would be doing a far better job relative to whatever demand it has on that front. Most states have more slightly more sane zoning so would be less badly hit by most of the problems that directly result from California’s extreme form of NIMBYism.

thghtihadanacct 4y ago
As someone that is stuck out here already with dwindling resources ... what obligation have I to help provide more houses to encourage growth in a resource poor environment?
- marssaxman 4y ago
  Who's asking you to help? All you need to do is mind your own business on your own property, and leave other people alone to build the housing they need on theirs.
wwweston 4y ago
I've watching some municipalities hit their geographic constraints in a few different states for a while now, and what I think I've noticed is that almost nobody gets higher density construction ahead of demand -- if there is anywhere that actually has "sane housing policy", it probably overlaps with places that have had demand outstrip supply for over a hundred years. A good chunk of the rest of America is used to being rural, semi-rural, or suburban. Especially places that saw most of their growth since automobiles became household near-essentials. Those places tends towards single family residential zoning too and are either seeing California-like sprawl or California-like price increases. Especially to the degree that market dynamics involve as much asset-first treatment of real estate as housing-first treatment. But I'd certainly love to hear about places that represent successful exceptions. Especially if they beat certain dynamics where construction also naturally follows demand (capital usually prefers to follow demand rather than lead it).
- deleted 4y ago

xtiansimon 4y ago

“Did I miss what the old California Dream was?” I grew up in NorCal, and I had the same reaction. That said, I’m in the NYC metro area now and there is a California dream here, and it always starts with the ‘better’, sunnier and warmer weather.