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I was taught by a great Historian that the United States of America was the loss that the Catholic Church suffered, the primary loss, due to the sale of indulge

I was taught by a great Historian that the United States of America was the loss that the Catholic Church suffered, the primary loss, due to the sale of indulgences and antagonizations leading up to Protestantism. They forfeited America by not carrying out the Reformation in due time.

boomboomsubban 4y ago
That is a strange take on history. The US isn't Catholic because England was the primary colonizer, and England's road to Protestantism is a bizarre one that has far less to do with indulgences than someplace like Germany. And despite the slow Reformation, Catholics still colonized most of America. If Napoleon hadn't needed money it's very possible most of what is now the US would still be Catholic.
- daniel-cussen 4y ago
  Anglicanism is part of the same historical process, and it led to Puritans--that's Puritans, proudly WASPs, which I am not, given that I was baptized Catholic--colonized America first, maintained power for the most part, and set the tone for religious freedom, with religious restrictions as well. So in the Supreme Court of former eras you see them discussing for instance the Common Book of Prayer, as a book that was an instrument of dominance through religion in England. That specifically led to the notion that public schools could flat out not ever teach religion, for a great many good reasons. Including classroom suasion--the teacher, the authority, subtexting he would favor those who did worship as he/she did--to getting children to worship as they would not without that suasion. A subtle form of requiring adhesion, and very insidious, it allows telling that child about the place called Hell. And how to avoid it, what he must do, and must never do. And the religious restrictions the Puritans imposed? No polygamy. That was where they drew the line, at that point religious freedom within one group stepped on the toes of religious freedom of another group. And it came into play with the Latter Day Saints, who were many imprisoned (there's famous pictures), and who some of them then migrated away from America, into Mexico. Like the Puritans emigrated in their day, to practice polygamy, in accordance to their religion.[1] [1] Polygamy is a neutral term, it's not pejorative per se, just means plural wives.
  - jcranmer 4y ago
    > Puritans [...] colonized America first Hi, Jamestown would like to have a word with you. The Puritans set up shop in New England, but in the rest of the colonies wasn't focused on the religious extremism that the early Puritans were: Maryland was originally a Catholic refuge colony, and the rest of the colonies were largely driven by economic migration (e.g., second sons of wealthy landowners who couldn't inherit any land in England).

boomboomsubban 4y ago

That is a strange take on history. The US isn't Catholic because England was the primary colonizer, and England's road to Protestantism is a bizarre one that has far less to do with indulgences than someplace like Germany. And despite the slow Reformation, Catholics still colonized most of America. If Napoleon hadn't needed money it's very possible most of what is now the US would still be Catholic.

daniel-cussen 4y ago
Anglicanism is part of the same historical process, and it led to Puritans--that's Puritans, proudly WASPs, which I am not, given that I was baptized Catholic--colonized America first, maintained power for the most part, and set the tone for religious freedom, with religious restrictions as well. So in the Supreme Court of former eras you see them discussing for instance the Common Book of Prayer, as a book that was an instrument of dominance through religion in England. That specifically led to the notion that public schools could flat out not ever teach religion, for a great many good reasons. Including classroom suasion--the teacher, the authority, subtexting he would favor those who did worship as he/she did--to getting children to worship as they would not without that suasion. A subtle form of requiring adhesion, and very insidious, it allows telling that child about the place called Hell. And how to avoid it, what he must do, and must never do. And the religious restrictions the Puritans imposed? No polygamy. That was where they drew the line, at that point religious freedom within one group stepped on the toes of religious freedom of another group. And it came into play with the Latter Day Saints, who were many imprisoned (there's famous pictures), and who some of them then migrated away from America, into Mexico. Like the Puritans emigrated in their day, to practice polygamy, in accordance to their religion.[1] [1] Polygamy is a neutral term, it's not pejorative per se, just means plural wives.
- jcranmer 4y ago
  > Puritans [...] colonized America first Hi, Jamestown would like to have a word with you. The Puritans set up shop in New England, but in the rest of the colonies wasn't focused on the religious extremism that the early Puritans were: Maryland was originally a Catholic refuge colony, and the rest of the colonies were largely driven by economic migration (e.g., second sons of wealthy landowners who couldn't inherit any land in England).