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So, what I don't understand is chemists and industrial engineers. There are highly educated humans somewhere who sat around and said, "you know what would sell

So, what I don't understand is chemists and industrial engineers. There are highly educated humans somewhere who sat around and said, "you know what would sell well right now is straws that looked like paper but were actually durable in water," and one of them said "oh just coat that stuff in PFAS, it'll work!" Not only that but the product then got all the way through all the other humans required to reach industrial scale manufacture and distribution. So a large number of people decided that it was worth exposing other humans to known toxic chemicals[1] to sell a product. Do the people involved just not care as long as they get paid? Do they not believe that chemicals do any harm? Do they think the harm is so tiny that it doesn't matter, and the people who are concerned are idiots? I genuinely don't understand it. 1: https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/index.html https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/pfas/health-effects/index.html

the_jeremy 4y ago
If these chemicals aren't banned in the US, then people are going to use that as evidence that they're not harmful at the amounts you'd get from using a straw. I'd point more to the government if we're trying to assign blame.
Scaevolus 4y ago
PFAS are ubiquitous in paper food containers too. One weird trick to make paper waterproof: coat it in fluoridated chemicals! https://toxicfreefuture.org/new-study-finds-pfas-chemicals-in-takeout-food-packaging/ https://toxicfreefuture.org/new-study-finds-pfas-chemicals-i...
- glial 4y ago
  From the link: > Four out of the five analyzed takeout containers from Whole Foods Market were likely treated with PFAS.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  So for sanity, when they sell 'baking tray paper' I see in the composition that it is silicone coated. Is that baking paper PFAS/PFOAS contaminated at all? If not, then why on earth would you not just coat all paper with silicone for waterproofing, it cannot be more expensive that PFAS based waterproofing, right?
yesathrowaway 4y ago
[flagged]
rasz 4y ago
Just be glad it wasn't lead this time around
kurupt213 4y ago
Nobody knows how toxic they are
- airstrike 4y ago
  That's such a cop out argument it's actually disheartening to hear it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
  - kurupt213 4y ago
    PFAS are so ubiquitous here it’s hard to even get a clean background for a blank. And I wasn’t arguing anything, other than we don’t know the level that they become dangerous at. The preferred contamination level would be no contamination, but that ship sailed long ago. Environmental testing is something I’ve been involved in for 15+ years. Endocrine disrupting persistent organic pollutants are a way bigger threat to public health than climate change.

the_jeremy 4y ago

If these chemicals aren't banned in the US, then people are going to use that as evidence that they're not harmful at the amounts you'd get from using a straw. I'd point more to the government if we're trying to assign blame.

Scaevolus 4y ago

PFAS are ubiquitous in paper food containers too. One weird trick to make paper waterproof: coat it in fluoridated chemicals! https://toxicfreefuture.org/new-study-finds-pfas-chemicals-in-takeout-food-packaging/ https://toxicfreefuture.org/new-study-finds-pfas-chemicals-i...

glial 4y ago
From the link: > Four out of the five analyzed takeout containers from Whole Foods Market were likely treated with PFAS.
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
So for sanity, when they sell 'baking tray paper' I see in the composition that it is silicone coated. Is that baking paper PFAS/PFOAS contaminated at all? If not, then why on earth would you not just coat all paper with silicone for waterproofing, it cannot be more expensive that PFAS based waterproofing, right?

yesathrowaway 4y ago

[flagged]

rasz 4y ago

Just be glad it wasn't lead this time around

kurupt213 4y ago

Nobody knows how toxic they are

airstrike 4y ago
That's such a cop out argument it's actually disheartening to hear it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
- kurupt213 4y ago
  PFAS are so ubiquitous here it’s hard to even get a clean background for a blank. And I wasn’t arguing anything, other than we don’t know the level that they become dangerous at. The preferred contamination level would be no contamination, but that ship sailed long ago. Environmental testing is something I’ve been involved in for 15+ years. Endocrine disrupting persistent organic pollutants are a way bigger threat to public health than climate change.