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You mention debugging the live Deep Space probe using a LISP REPL, and I remember reading somewhere else how people troubleshooted an earlier Voyager (?) probe

You mention debugging the live Deep Space probe using a LISP REPL, and I remember reading somewhere else how people troubleshooted an earlier Voyager (?) probe via a FORTH REPL. Were those schools of thought in contact at all? What do you think about the efforts of some Haskell folks to make embedded languages that would generate code for a more limited system but at the same time leverage the beefy Haskell stage as both an extensible static analyzer and an overgrown macro processor? There were a number of those (I think shaders for earlier-generation GPUs, real-time control code, and even hardware synthesis were all among the attempted targets) and I don’t know that they got any adoption at all, but this sounds similar to what you’ve described doing on less capable machines with LISP.

lisper 5y ago
A Forth REPL on Voyager would be news to me. It's possible, because I do know that Forth was used to program some flight instruments on later missions [1] but even then it didn't include a REPL. I don't know anything about what is happening in Haskell-land, but from your description it sounds like what they are doing is very similar. Haskell shares a lot of intellectual DNA with Lisp so it's not surprising that it would end up being used this way. [1] https://flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html https://flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html, see the "Miscellaneous stories" section.
mek6800d2 5y ago
A little late to the discussion! The John Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab (JHU/APL) uses or used to use FORTH for non-critical satellite flight software (and Ada for mission-critical software). Back in 2009, I came across this 2006 JHU/APL paper about compiling a subset of Haskell down to FORTH for execution on a special-purpose processor: Andrew J. Harris and John R. Hayes, "Functional Programming on a Stack-Based Embedded Processor". ( http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/Forth_functional.pdf http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/Forth_functional.pdf ) I don't know if they pursued the use of Haskell any further or even if they still use FORTH. In 2009, when I read this paper and others from them, I discovered that the Lab had hosted a by-then-defunct FORTH Users Group, not exactly an auspicious sign.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  Forth and Haskell aren't really so different, ultimately. Fans of each would never admit that.
  - pyinstallwoes 5y ago
    Examples on why or how?
    - ncmncm 5y ago
      J/k.

lisper 5y ago

A Forth REPL on Voyager would be news to me. It's possible, because I do know that Forth was used to program some flight instruments on later missions [1] but even then it didn't include a REPL. I don't know anything about what is happening in Haskell-land, but from your description it sounds like what they are doing is very similar. Haskell shares a lot of intellectual DNA with Lisp so it's not surprising that it would end up being used this way. [1] https://flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html https://flownet.com/gat/jpl-lisp.html, see the "Miscellaneous stories" section.

mek6800d2 5y ago

A little late to the discussion! The John Hopkins University Applied Physics Lab (JHU/APL) uses or used to use FORTH for non-critical satellite flight software (and Ada for mission-critical software). Back in 2009, I came across this 2006 JHU/APL paper about compiling a subset of Haskell down to FORTH for execution on a special-purpose processor: Andrew J. Harris and John R. Hayes, "Functional Programming on a Stack-Based Embedded Processor". ( http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/Forth_functional.pdf http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/Forth_functional.pdf ) I don't know if they pursued the use of Haskell any further or even if they still use FORTH. In 2009, when I read this paper and others from them, I discovered that the Lab had hosted a by-then-defunct FORTH Users Group, not exactly an auspicious sign.

ncmncm 5y ago
Forth and Haskell aren't really so different, ultimately. Fans of each would never admit that.
- pyinstallwoes 5y ago
  Examples on why or how?
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    J/k.