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I'm pretty sure if you say to your manager "I quit" and stop showing up to work, regardless of what internet forms you fill out, it's a resignation. The fact th

I'm pretty sure if you say to your manager "I quit" and stop showing up to work, regardless of what internet forms you fill out, it's a resignation. The fact that Gebru gave her resignation in the form of an ultimatum rather than whatever website form you're talking about is a pedantic point. "I resign if you don't do X." "We're not doing X, we accept your resignation." This is a resignation the way I understand it.

bluefirebrand 5y ago
> "I resign if you don't do X." > "We're not doing X, we accept your resignation." This approach from her managers can be criticized because it immediately closes the door on the possibility of her changing her mind and walking things back. However, it sounds like she was causing a lot of internal problems so perhaps they were already working to get rid of her. Accepting the implied resignation may have just been expedient, and saved the company a bunch of severance money.
- abduhl 5y ago
  You can certainly criticize Google for taking someone at their word when that person issues an ultimatum, but then you’re tacitly admitting that the person offering the ultimatum is approaching the negotiation in bad faith. Google should not have to assume its employees are acting in bad faith when they communicate internally, especially when it comes to the future of that employee’s career. The real question for your framing is: Should Google have to say, “ok that’s it for real this time, no take-backsies”? I think that google should never have to say this any time someone says “or else I quit” because the threat of quitting tells us that they’re not willing to continue operating within Google. I honestly don’t see the reasoning behind drawing the line anywhere else.
- themacguffinman 5y ago
  She never gave Google any reason to believe that she had wanted to walk things back or change her mind. That's the nature of delivering an ultimatum by threatening to resign: you are explicitly offering an immediate end to the negotiation. Don't be surprised if management takes you at your word, they're not mind readers. If she wanted to signal to managers that she might not actually quit over this, then she shouldn't explicitly say that she will quit over this.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  > the possibility of her changing her mind and walking things back. The George Costanza scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW78swzn_Bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW78swzn_Bs
faeriechangling 5y ago
That’s not a resignation the way California understands it. If she said “I am resigning NOW unless you do X” that WOULD count as a resignation. Let’s think of a hypothetical. A student says “I’m going to quit eventually in order to attend classes” and the manager says “I accept your resignation, you are fired”. This generally seems more like a firing because somebody was going to resign, more than it seems like a resignation no? In the Gebru case, Gebru didn’t express WHEN she was going to resign, and that’s google’s issue. Maybe Gebru was, for all Google knew, threatening to quit in a month or a year or in 10 years. Gebru never actually made the time of her proposed resignation clear. As such, the law doesn’t consider to actually have made a legally binding resignation.
- agentofoblivion 5y ago
  I get it. But that’s really dumb and why people hate lawyers. The intent is entirely clear in this case, and the rest is just legal jujitsu.

bluefirebrand 5y ago

> "I resign if you don't do X." > "We're not doing X, we accept your resignation." This approach from her managers can be criticized because it immediately closes the door on the possibility of her changing her mind and walking things back. However, it sounds like she was causing a lot of internal problems so perhaps they were already working to get rid of her. Accepting the implied resignation may have just been expedient, and saved the company a bunch of severance money.

abduhl 5y ago
You can certainly criticize Google for taking someone at their word when that person issues an ultimatum, but then you’re tacitly admitting that the person offering the ultimatum is approaching the negotiation in bad faith. Google should not have to assume its employees are acting in bad faith when they communicate internally, especially when it comes to the future of that employee’s career. The real question for your framing is: Should Google have to say, “ok that’s it for real this time, no take-backsies”? I think that google should never have to say this any time someone says “or else I quit” because the threat of quitting tells us that they’re not willing to continue operating within Google. I honestly don’t see the reasoning behind drawing the line anywhere else.
themacguffinman 5y ago
She never gave Google any reason to believe that she had wanted to walk things back or change her mind. That's the nature of delivering an ultimatum by threatening to resign: you are explicitly offering an immediate end to the negotiation. Don't be surprised if management takes you at your word, they're not mind readers. If she wanted to signal to managers that she might not actually quit over this, then she shouldn't explicitly say that she will quit over this.
dehrmann 5y ago
> the possibility of her changing her mind and walking things back. The George Costanza scenario: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW78swzn_Bs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW78swzn_Bs

faeriechangling 5y ago

That’s not a resignation the way California understands it. If she said “I am resigning NOW unless you do X” that WOULD count as a resignation. Let’s think of a hypothetical. A student says “I’m going to quit eventually in order to attend classes” and the manager says “I accept your resignation, you are fired”. This generally seems more like a firing because somebody was going to resign, more than it seems like a resignation no? In the Gebru case, Gebru didn’t express WHEN she was going to resign, and that’s google’s issue. Maybe Gebru was, for all Google knew, threatening to quit in a month or a year or in 10 years. Gebru never actually made the time of her proposed resignation clear. As such, the law doesn’t consider to actually have made a legally binding resignation.

agentofoblivion 5y ago
I get it. But that’s really dumb and why people hate lawyers. The intent is entirely clear in this case, and the rest is just legal jujitsu.