4 ms·

Few games are for everybody, but Nier: Automata sold millions of copies. The niche of action gamers who like asses is pretty big.

morelisp 5y ago
But Nier was even more interesting (formally experimental, better writing - at least in English translation, deeper characterization) and sold poorly. I guess the lesson if you want to make an art game is to make half an art game and the other half ass.
- bluefirebrand 5y ago
  The gameplay of the original Nier is dogshit though. That leads to poor reviews, which leads to poor sales.
  - morelisp 5y ago
    "Gameplay" is a non-criticism. The combat movement is clunky, especially by western it-sucks-if-I-can't-cancel-everything-all-the-time God of War standards. Plenty of other stuff is amazing.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      > it-sucks-if-I-can't-cancel-everything-all-the-time Western gamers loves Dark Souls/Elden Ring so that statement is definitely false.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      > "Gameplay" is a non-criticism. How is "Gameplay" a non-criticism of a Game? That makes zero sense. Also, that gameplay you are talking about was arguably pioneered by Devil May Cry, which is a Japanese game. So I don't know what you're on about "Western Gamers"
      - morelisp 5y ago
        GoW’s explicit design goal was “NG/DMC but easier and more cancels.” Which is fine, but the difference is there. https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/combat-canceled-i-god-of-war-i-action-game-design https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/combat-canceled-i-god-of-wa... As for “gameplay” I’m not going to recapitulate the past decade+ of how we’ve learned to write about games. It’s semantically empty, say what you mean instead.
  - Volundr 5y ago
    Not sure I'd say dogshit but not near as smooth as automata. Plus the story of the original game took a looooooong time to get going combined with the ability to lock yourself out of the true ending without knowing or discovering it for like 75% of the game is definitely going to limit the audience.
    - bluefirebrand 5y ago
      It's not just "not as smooth as Automata", it's bad by the standards of the era it was released into. It's a 2010 PS3 game with movement and combat and controls that feel like an early PS2 game where they are still figuring out twin stick movement and cameras.
    - bsder 5y ago
      The controls are terrible. The combat is super repetitive. You transition between areas very slowly. You can lock yourself out of endings without even intending to. You can accidentally throw yourself into forced events super underleveled. You have to grind like hell for some of the materials. I can go on and on. "Dogshit" might be a bit hyperbolic, but not by a lot. Nier: Automata is a good (not great) game from Platinum wrapped in a juicy Nier narrative layer that elevates it to a very good game.
  - musicale 5y ago
    Nier Replicant ver.1.22... is a remake of the original and has gotten positive reviews (80+ on Metacritic.) I did not find Nier Gestalt to be worse than any other JRPGs of its era in terms of gameplay, and it had some clever bits like switching between 2D and 3D perspectives as well as game styles. My main complaints were the tedious fetch quests (I completed about half of them before deciding it wasn't worth finishing them all), the fact that the fishing minigame was explained incorrectly, and (slight spoiler) a story that I found to be sad and depressing. Completing multiple endings can be somewhat tedious as well. But the creativity, the atmospheric graphics, and the soundtrack were exceptional. I think Nier Gestalt and Replicant on the PS3 were underrated (if flawed) gems.
- namelessoracle 5y ago
  Nier had significant assets in that regard too. Nier: Automata was just a flat out better game.
  - c0balt 5y ago
    The term ass.ets is quite an interesting choice of words in this regard. Though besides that time (including current trends) might also have been a very important factor. I would imagine a Deus Ex game might've sold better rn (with the increased hunger for cyperpunk-ish games after Cyperpunk 2077) than in the last few years. Though with the dev times on those games planning for future trends might be unreasonable.
kipchak 5y ago
Maybe he's talking about the first in the series, Nier 2010?

morelisp 5y ago

But Nier was even more interesting (formally experimental, better writing - at least in English translation, deeper characterization) and sold poorly. I guess the lesson if you want to make an art game is to make half an art game and the other half ass.

bluefirebrand 5y ago
The gameplay of the original Nier is dogshit though. That leads to poor reviews, which leads to poor sales.
- morelisp 5y ago
  "Gameplay" is a non-criticism. The combat movement is clunky, especially by western it-sucks-if-I-can't-cancel-everything-all-the-time God of War standards. Plenty of other stuff is amazing.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    > it-sucks-if-I-can't-cancel-everything-all-the-time Western gamers loves Dark Souls/Elden Ring so that statement is definitely false.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    > "Gameplay" is a non-criticism. How is "Gameplay" a non-criticism of a Game? That makes zero sense. Also, that gameplay you are talking about was arguably pioneered by Devil May Cry, which is a Japanese game. So I don't know what you're on about "Western Gamers"
    - morelisp 5y ago
      GoW’s explicit design goal was “NG/DMC but easier and more cancels.” Which is fine, but the difference is there. https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/combat-canceled-i-god-of-war-i-action-game-design https://www.gamedeveloper.com/pc/combat-canceled-i-god-of-wa... As for “gameplay” I’m not going to recapitulate the past decade+ of how we’ve learned to write about games. It’s semantically empty, say what you mean instead.
- Volundr 5y ago
  Not sure I'd say dogshit but not near as smooth as automata. Plus the story of the original game took a looooooong time to get going combined with the ability to lock yourself out of the true ending without knowing or discovering it for like 75% of the game is definitely going to limit the audience.
  - bluefirebrand 5y ago
    It's not just "not as smooth as Automata", it's bad by the standards of the era it was released into. It's a 2010 PS3 game with movement and combat and controls that feel like an early PS2 game where they are still figuring out twin stick movement and cameras.
  - bsder 5y ago
    The controls are terrible. The combat is super repetitive. You transition between areas very slowly. You can lock yourself out of endings without even intending to. You can accidentally throw yourself into forced events super underleveled. You have to grind like hell for some of the materials. I can go on and on. "Dogshit" might be a bit hyperbolic, but not by a lot. Nier: Automata is a good (not great) game from Platinum wrapped in a juicy Nier narrative layer that elevates it to a very good game.
- musicale 5y ago
  Nier Replicant ver.1.22... is a remake of the original and has gotten positive reviews (80+ on Metacritic.) I did not find Nier Gestalt to be worse than any other JRPGs of its era in terms of gameplay, and it had some clever bits like switching between 2D and 3D perspectives as well as game styles. My main complaints were the tedious fetch quests (I completed about half of them before deciding it wasn't worth finishing them all), the fact that the fishing minigame was explained incorrectly, and (slight spoiler) a story that I found to be sad and depressing. Completing multiple endings can be somewhat tedious as well. But the creativity, the atmospheric graphics, and the soundtrack were exceptional. I think Nier Gestalt and Replicant on the PS3 were underrated (if flawed) gems.
namelessoracle 5y ago
Nier had significant assets in that regard too. Nier: Automata was just a flat out better game.
- c0balt 5y ago
  The term ass.ets is quite an interesting choice of words in this regard. Though besides that time (including current trends) might also have been a very important factor. I would imagine a Deus Ex game might've sold better rn (with the increased hunger for cyperpunk-ish games after Cyperpunk 2077) than in the last few years. Though with the dev times on those games planning for future trends might be unreasonable.

kipchak 5y ago

Maybe he's talking about the first in the series, Nier 2010?