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What's infuriating is, think about how much of that software was probably worthless bloat for features no one needs. As many as 89 people may have died so Toyot

What's infuriating is, think about how much of that software was probably worthless bloat for features no one needs. As many as 89 people may have died so Toyota could claim Bluetooth and MP3s in their latest models.

oofbey 5y ago
I wonder how much the software engineers at Tesla & similar think about this stuff. I bet not much.
- shepherdjerred 5y ago
  Why do you say that? Has Tesla has a similar set of incidents (unrelated to its self driving features)
  - carlmr 5y ago
    You're comparing apples and oranges. Compare how many cars Toyota vs Tesla puts on the road. Then divide the number of cases here 89 by that multiplier. You will find that even if Tesla had similar issues, they would in many cases just not be detected.
bhk 5y ago
Not so, according to NASA and NHTSA. More mundane, physical masters were at fault.
PaulHoule 5y ago
I'd assume the entertainment is decoupled from any engine control, drivetrain control or drive-by-wire features.
- chomp 5y ago
  You're correct, this is the ETCS, which is a piece of the electronics in a Toyota. It's responsible for feeding speed, sensor, and drive control inputs in, and figuring out EFI, throttle, timing and stuff like that.
- malfist 5y ago
  Yeah, GP is wrong in assuming bluetooth or MP3 processing had anything to do with this. The CAN bus is what rules in cars, and infotainment systems are generally isolated and off of it. In some cases infotainment can read the CAN bus for things like pulling speed to display on GPS, but generally cannot place items on the bus
2143 5y ago
> What's infuriating is... As many as 89 people may have died so Toyota could claim Bluetooth and MP3s in their latest models. You don't have to stay infuriated anymore. The computers for in-car-entertainment is different and decoupled from the one for engine and throttle management. As for the bloat, my observation (which could be wrong) is that Toyota seems to have comparatively less bloat.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > The computers for in-car-entertainment is different and decoupled from the one for engine and throttle management. Learning the lessons from the aviation industry all over again.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  >The computers for in-car-entertainment is different and decoupled from the one for engine and throttle management. Somewhat unrelated to this particular case, but terrifyingly, the network isn't and CAN is one of the least secure BUS's imaginable.
  - vodou 5y ago
    >... CAN is one of the least secure BUS's imaginable. Can you elaborate on this?
    - kayodelycaon 5y ago
      No security or authentication. IIRC, any attached device has full control over the physical layer by design. I don't really see why this is a problem in a car with isolated buses for safety-critical components.
      - hatsunearu 5y ago
        Yeah... that's like saying a car has a security risk because someone can go in the wheel well and slash the brake lines...

oofbey 5y ago

I wonder how much the software engineers at Tesla & similar think about this stuff. I bet not much.

shepherdjerred 5y ago
Why do you say that? Has Tesla has a similar set of incidents (unrelated to its self driving features)
- carlmr 5y ago
  You're comparing apples and oranges. Compare how many cars Toyota vs Tesla puts on the road. Then divide the number of cases here 89 by that multiplier. You will find that even if Tesla had similar issues, they would in many cases just not be detected.

bhk 5y ago

Not so, according to NASA and NHTSA. More mundane, physical masters were at fault.

PaulHoule 5y ago

I'd assume the entertainment is decoupled from any engine control, drivetrain control or drive-by-wire features.

chomp 5y ago
You're correct, this is the ETCS, which is a piece of the electronics in a Toyota. It's responsible for feeding speed, sensor, and drive control inputs in, and figuring out EFI, throttle, timing and stuff like that.
malfist 5y ago
Yeah, GP is wrong in assuming bluetooth or MP3 processing had anything to do with this. The CAN bus is what rules in cars, and infotainment systems are generally isolated and off of it. In some cases infotainment can read the CAN bus for things like pulling speed to display on GPS, but generally cannot place items on the bus

2143 5y ago

> What's infuriating is... As many as 89 people may have died so Toyota could claim Bluetooth and MP3s in their latest models. You don't have to stay infuriated anymore. The computers for in-car-entertainment is different and decoupled from the one for engine and throttle management. As for the bloat, my observation (which could be wrong) is that Toyota seems to have comparatively less bloat.

WalterBright 5y ago
> The computers for in-car-entertainment is different and decoupled from the one for engine and throttle management. Learning the lessons from the aviation industry all over again.
RC_ITR 5y ago
>The computers for in-car-entertainment is different and decoupled from the one for engine and throttle management. Somewhat unrelated to this particular case, but terrifyingly, the network isn't and CAN is one of the least secure BUS's imaginable.
- vodou 5y ago
  >... CAN is one of the least secure BUS's imaginable. Can you elaborate on this?
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    No security or authentication. IIRC, any attached device has full control over the physical layer by design. I don't really see why this is a problem in a car with isolated buses for safety-critical components.
    - hatsunearu 5y ago
      Yeah... that's like saying a car has a security risk because someone can go in the wheel well and slash the brake lines...