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As a German who got some first / second hand accounts from children of Polish survivors and Polish survivors I disagree. The German army and other occupying for

As a German who got some first / second hand accounts from children of Polish survivors and Polish survivors I disagree. The German army and other occupying forces did awful things in Poland and not just to the Jewish population. Just because the violence and killing was maybe more methodical and less unstructured like randomly raping civilians, doesn't make it any less awful. Even the initial attack that resulted in the occupation of Poland was done without regard to the lives of the civilian population.

jacquesm 4y ago
Yes they did. And still compared to the stories about the Russians they showed considerable restraint. This is not about absolutes, it is about relatives. Having no control over your army and the atrocities it commits because the higher ups simply don't care at all about the kind of image they are projecting is exactly the reason why things are utterly out of control in Ukraine today. Lack of discipline, lack of enforcement and in general using the army as a weapon of terror is what is happening, there is zero restraint.
- gregw2 4y ago
  I cannot speak to rape nor Russia vs Germany, but for the suffering of the Poles at German hands I am compelled to add this from my eyewitness family history lest German abuse of Poland be discounted. It is not often discussed, but millions of Poles, not just Jews or Jewish Poles were killed in concentration camps. This (sans "millions" which is my own research finding) was my grandfather's observation as a US officer liberating such camps- there were a lot of non Jewish Poles in such places. "Lebensraum" came through Polish genocide from what I can tell. (I am not Polish.)
  - orbifold 4y ago
    Although the part where non-Jewish poles were in concentration camps, while true, also led to them being forced to participate in the genocide, which still was primarily directed at Jews, while everyone else was doing (mostly) forced labor. The conditions in the forced Labour camps were obviously horrible and children especially routinely starved while in captivity with their mothers. All 6 siblings of my partner’s grandmother were killed on arrival in Ausschwitz, as were her parents. She was spared by Mengele and subjected to experiments. Ultimately weighing atrocities against each other is not super productive. But the myth of a “clean Wehrmacht” had been so persistent and convenient that it took decades to root out in German main stream opinion.

jacquesm 4y ago

Yes they did. And still compared to the stories about the Russians they showed considerable restraint. This is not about absolutes, it is about relatives. Having no control over your army and the atrocities it commits because the higher ups simply don't care at all about the kind of image they are projecting is exactly the reason why things are utterly out of control in Ukraine today. Lack of discipline, lack of enforcement and in general using the army as a weapon of terror is what is happening, there is zero restraint.

gregw2 4y ago
I cannot speak to rape nor Russia vs Germany, but for the suffering of the Poles at German hands I am compelled to add this from my eyewitness family history lest German abuse of Poland be discounted. It is not often discussed, but millions of Poles, not just Jews or Jewish Poles were killed in concentration camps. This (sans "millions" which is my own research finding) was my grandfather's observation as a US officer liberating such camps- there were a lot of non Jewish Poles in such places. "Lebensraum" came through Polish genocide from what I can tell. (I am not Polish.)
- orbifold 4y ago
  Although the part where non-Jewish poles were in concentration camps, while true, also led to them being forced to participate in the genocide, which still was primarily directed at Jews, while everyone else was doing (mostly) forced labor. The conditions in the forced Labour camps were obviously horrible and children especially routinely starved while in captivity with their mothers. All 6 siblings of my partner’s grandmother were killed on arrival in Ausschwitz, as were her parents. She was spared by Mengele and subjected to experiments. Ultimately weighing atrocities against each other is not super productive. But the myth of a “clean Wehrmacht” had been so persistent and convenient that it took decades to root out in German main stream opinion.