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It was believed Square’s choice to put Final Fantasy on PlayStation killed the Sega Saturn, and dented N64 adoption. But this is console war mythos, not sure if

It was believed Square’s choice to put Final Fantasy on PlayStation killed the Sega Saturn, and dented N64 adoption. But this is console war mythos, not sure if anyone really dug into it. The power of Square once upon a time may have been truly legendary, but who knows for sure?

ineedasername 4y ago
Cartridge price played a big part for N64. MSRP for new games was about $60 compared to most PS1 games @ $50. Worse, retailers often marked them up a lot, which didn't seem to happen for PS1 games. I'm pretty sure I paid $80 for Ocarina of Time, while I snagged FFVII for the $50 MSRP. And IIRC price drops were pretty rare, especially for 1st party games. (Still true today). It made me much less willing to take a chance on a games I might not like. These days with Steam I can at least see if I hate the game immediately and return it, so much better from that perspective. Of course I can resell when I'm done, which is less good.
- bennysomething 4y ago
  One of the ex rare Goldeneye Devs said in an interview that the N64 not having a cd drive lost them that generation. I think he's probably mostly right. Cartridges were not only an anti piracy move, it saved on cost of console manufacturing (the N64 was still sold at a loss). As you point out N64 games were originally a lot more expensive than playstation games. Also Nintendo were really restrictive with who could develop for the N64, remember the whole "dream team" thing? Mean playstation had way more favourable licensing and you didn't need silicon graphics workstations (I think I'm correct in N64 dev requiring them?)
  - robonerd 4y ago
    The N64 controller did Nintendo no favors, particularly with games like Goldeneye. The original playstation controller didn't stand the test of time either, but once the analog sticks were added it became an instant classic.
    - trey-jones 4y ago
      The controller was weird then and is even weirder in hindsight but as I recall: 1. This was the first console controller with any analog stick at all. 2. Goldeneye, though it controls differently to modern shooters, was an excellent use of the single stick at the time. You could also use dual sticks by using two controllers at once - groundbreaking! 3. The Z-button was the first trigger-style button on console controllers. 4. The rumble pack was one of (if not) the first force feedback options for console controllers. So obviously very many of the concepts in the N64 controller laid the groundwork for what became the standard controller design later, with dual triggers, dual sticks, and built-in force feedback. Personally I think the N64 controller was less weird than: 1. Gamecube controller 2. Wiimote 3. Dual Screen handheld with touchscreen and stylus 4. Probably whatever the Wii-U had.
      - mwaitjmp 4y ago
        The wii u tablet controller is actually pretty comfortable to use.
      - giobox 4y ago
        > Goldeneye, though it controls differently to modern shooters, was an excellent use of the single stick at the time. You could also use dual sticks by using two controllers at once - groundbreaking! Wait, what!!? Can you really play dual-stick Goldeneye on original N64 hardware this way? Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQ_ri2ZbY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQ_ri2ZbY4 Amazing!
      - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
        > This was the first console controller with any analog stick at all. Atari 5200 beat them there.
      - mrtranscendence 4y ago
        > Gamecube controller The Gamecube controller may have looked a bit funny, but it's at least recognizable by modern standards. I recall it being quite comfortable to use at the time. If you gave both it and the original N64 controller to a young person today who had no idea about Nintendo's history, I daresay she'd call the Gamecube controller the less weird of the two. Also, it wasn't Nintendo, but I'd call the Dreamcast controller a bit weird. Gigantic, weirdly shaped, a dinky LCD smack dab in the center ...
  - trey-jones 4y ago
    Somehow the pros of N64 carts (mainly loading times and onboard game saves) were never really talked about. I had an N64 (which I purchased together with Goldeneye circa 1997). I can remember a feeling of thinking I had made a mistake because PS1 seemed much bigger and I had a feeling that it must have been better. But looking back, I feel like N64 had the better set of games. But maybe that's just because it's what I know. Honestly Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were probably enough to win that war all by themselves in my mind, but Mario Kart, Mario 64, Smash Bros, and Star Fox also got a lot of play time from me.
    - ineedasername 4y ago
      There were definite advantages to cartridges. I remember a few occasions where PS1 memory cards ate my save data, which never happened on N64. And I remember tedious disc swapping and long load times on a few games: Riven had a few discs and you'd have to switch when traveling from one area to another, and those were always fraught with the potential for game crashes. On the other hand discs allowed much larger games. There was a crazy amount of variety on the PS1, though as a result also a lot of crap to sort through. I was a Nintendo-first fanboy at the time, but when the PS1 dropped in price to about $100 I picked one up, trading in N64 games I no longer played to help fund the purchase. I think it was around the time FFVII came out because I remember reserving it for day-1 release. Ahh simpler times, working manual labor while in school. Sometimes I'm nostalgic for those days of unskilled (relatively) non knowledge-based work. It was much less stressful, even if the pay was crap.
  - ineedasername 4y ago
    What was the dream team thing? I'm not familiar with that.
    - bennysomething 4y ago
      https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/06/08/sweet-dreams-are-made-of-these https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/06/08/sweet-dreams-are-mad...
skhr0680 4y ago
Maybe it’s just my filter bubble but for years Sony had such good marketing that I knew their flagship games and random facts about their consoles even when I didn’t own them myself. I couldn’t tell you a single game on the PS5. I don’t know about other countries, but it’s like they’re not even trying in Japan
- baisq 4y ago
  GTA Online ;) Even today it is hard to buy a PS5. So, no wonder they aren't pushing it that hard.

ineedasername 4y ago

Cartridge price played a big part for N64. MSRP for new games was about $60 compared to most PS1 games @ $50. Worse, retailers often marked them up a lot, which didn't seem to happen for PS1 games. I'm pretty sure I paid $80 for Ocarina of Time, while I snagged FFVII for the $50 MSRP. And IIRC price drops were pretty rare, especially for 1st party games. (Still true today). It made me much less willing to take a chance on a games I might not like. These days with Steam I can at least see if I hate the game immediately and return it, so much better from that perspective. Of course I can resell when I'm done, which is less good.

bennysomething 4y ago
One of the ex rare Goldeneye Devs said in an interview that the N64 not having a cd drive lost them that generation. I think he's probably mostly right. Cartridges were not only an anti piracy move, it saved on cost of console manufacturing (the N64 was still sold at a loss). As you point out N64 games were originally a lot more expensive than playstation games. Also Nintendo were really restrictive with who could develop for the N64, remember the whole "dream team" thing? Mean playstation had way more favourable licensing and you didn't need silicon graphics workstations (I think I'm correct in N64 dev requiring them?)
- robonerd 4y ago
  The N64 controller did Nintendo no favors, particularly with games like Goldeneye. The original playstation controller didn't stand the test of time either, but once the analog sticks were added it became an instant classic.
  - trey-jones 4y ago
    The controller was weird then and is even weirder in hindsight but as I recall: 1. This was the first console controller with any analog stick at all. 2. Goldeneye, though it controls differently to modern shooters, was an excellent use of the single stick at the time. You could also use dual sticks by using two controllers at once - groundbreaking! 3. The Z-button was the first trigger-style button on console controllers. 4. The rumble pack was one of (if not) the first force feedback options for console controllers. So obviously very many of the concepts in the N64 controller laid the groundwork for what became the standard controller design later, with dual triggers, dual sticks, and built-in force feedback. Personally I think the N64 controller was less weird than: 1. Gamecube controller 2. Wiimote 3. Dual Screen handheld with touchscreen and stylus 4. Probably whatever the Wii-U had.
    - mwaitjmp 4y ago
      The wii u tablet controller is actually pretty comfortable to use.
    - giobox 4y ago
      > Goldeneye, though it controls differently to modern shooters, was an excellent use of the single stick at the time. You could also use dual sticks by using two controllers at once - groundbreaking! Wait, what!!? Can you really play dual-stick Goldeneye on original N64 hardware this way? Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQ_ri2ZbY4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDQ_ri2ZbY4 Amazing!
    - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
      > This was the first console controller with any analog stick at all. Atari 5200 beat them there.
    - mrtranscendence 4y ago
      > Gamecube controller The Gamecube controller may have looked a bit funny, but it's at least recognizable by modern standards. I recall it being quite comfortable to use at the time. If you gave both it and the original N64 controller to a young person today who had no idea about Nintendo's history, I daresay she'd call the Gamecube controller the less weird of the two. Also, it wasn't Nintendo, but I'd call the Dreamcast controller a bit weird. Gigantic, weirdly shaped, a dinky LCD smack dab in the center ...
- trey-jones 4y ago
  Somehow the pros of N64 carts (mainly loading times and onboard game saves) were never really talked about. I had an N64 (which I purchased together with Goldeneye circa 1997). I can remember a feeling of thinking I had made a mistake because PS1 seemed much bigger and I had a feeling that it must have been better. But looking back, I feel like N64 had the better set of games. But maybe that's just because it's what I know. Honestly Goldeneye and Perfect Dark were probably enough to win that war all by themselves in my mind, but Mario Kart, Mario 64, Smash Bros, and Star Fox also got a lot of play time from me.
  - ineedasername 4y ago
    There were definite advantages to cartridges. I remember a few occasions where PS1 memory cards ate my save data, which never happened on N64. And I remember tedious disc swapping and long load times on a few games: Riven had a few discs and you'd have to switch when traveling from one area to another, and those were always fraught with the potential for game crashes. On the other hand discs allowed much larger games. There was a crazy amount of variety on the PS1, though as a result also a lot of crap to sort through. I was a Nintendo-first fanboy at the time, but when the PS1 dropped in price to about $100 I picked one up, trading in N64 games I no longer played to help fund the purchase. I think it was around the time FFVII came out because I remember reserving it for day-1 release. Ahh simpler times, working manual labor while in school. Sometimes I'm nostalgic for those days of unskilled (relatively) non knowledge-based work. It was much less stressful, even if the pay was crap.
- ineedasername 4y ago
  What was the dream team thing? I'm not familiar with that.
  - bennysomething 4y ago
    https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/06/08/sweet-dreams-are-made-of-these https://www.ign.com/articles/1999/06/08/sweet-dreams-are-mad...

skhr0680 4y ago

Maybe it’s just my filter bubble but for years Sony had such good marketing that I knew their flagship games and random facts about their consoles even when I didn’t own them myself. I couldn’t tell you a single game on the PS5. I don’t know about other countries, but it’s like they’re not even trying in Japan

baisq 4y ago
GTA Online ;) Even today it is hard to buy a PS5. So, no wonder they aren't pushing it that hard.