5 ms·

This article speaks a lot from a position of privilege and mostly from a straight woman’s view. The aspect of dating a lot in their 20’s is something most releg

This article speaks a lot from a position of privilege and mostly from a straight woman’s view. The aspect of dating a lot in their 20’s is something most relegated to the most attractive men and most women these days. If you want to have stable relationships - you need to commit to people who are actually interested in you. The reason many women have these bad experiences with men is because they’re all dating the same guy. Literally. In many instances, women are all dating the same man. They’re all optimizing for the superficial and hoping the deeper and lasting parts appear later. (But they never do - because they optimized for the superficial) So while many women disparage all men because they keep dating the same guy who has way too many options and no interest in committing (and essentially has a harem on tap) but it’s really on them for that scenario they’re in. If you keep going for something that doesn’t want you then it’s on you. I find it weird we are blaming men for these things when it’s clear that most men are just not having sex in their 20s anymore and clearly not even getting dates. Men are very lonely these days. The 4x self-inflicted death rate compared to women should be evidence enough. If we want to fix this and have a more meaningful relationship then women need to stop chasing the one guy who will never settle down with them.

jawarner 5y ago
> The 4x self-inflicted death rate compared to women should be evidence enough. This seems like a manipulative use of mental health statistics. Need I remind you that women attempt suicide at a much greater rate than men? Regardless everyone is responsible for their own emotional well-being at the end of the day. It's not right to blame women for male loneliness. After all, I can just as easily flip the script. If your claim is that heterosexual men are miserable due to a lack of dating prospects, then there are an equal number of frustrating heterosexual women unable to find a good relationship. Don't they also feel loneliness? The truth is that dating is hard, and it can be painful for everyone, men and women. Women also encounter a unique set of problems when it comes to dating, e.g., violence, that is experienced less by men.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Women attempt at a higher rate because they're often not looking to actually die - they're making a plea for help. Men don't attempt like that because no one is going to come knocking or respond to a plea for help - they just end it. The thinking of 1:1 is where you go wrong. First off - more men exist below 40 than women. Men are born at 105-107:100 ratio, NATURALLY. If it was equal - why are the stats on male sex so much more grim than for women? Oh, that's right - because again - multiple women are sharing one man. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame... I really wish we'd get away from this narrative that violence or abuse is only something that women encounter in relationships. Figured the Depp vs Heard trial would make that more obvious to everyday people out here but guess not. I know many men who were abused by women - it is not often reported or talked about because it is - again - incredibly shameful to a degree that makes other people question the survivors "manliness" and worthiness of being a "man". It's also not taken seriously at all. I still think women suffer more often at physical abuse but mental abuse - idk - not clear on that one.
  - jawarner 5y ago
    You’re not really responding to my points. You’re trying to enforce a sense of male victim hood that isn’t supported by the evidence you’re presenting.
nl 5y ago
> most men are just not having sex in their 20s anymore This is misleading and seems to be trying to paint a picture of male victimhood that just isn't statistically supported. It's true that in the US people (both male and female) are having sex now than in the 1990s: > Between 2009 and 2018, the proportion of adolescents reporting no sexual activity, either alone or with partners, rose from 28.8 percent to 44.2 percent among young men and from 49.5 percent in 2009 to 74 percent among young women.[1] It's worth noting that less women than men are having sex, and the decline amongst women has been greater than amoung men. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-have-been-having-less-sex-whether-theyre-teenagers-or-40-somethings/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-have-been-...
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  I really have to wonder if you googled something and picked the first result without reading it, because your source doesn't refute anything about the GPs statement that "most men are just not having sex in their 20s anymore". > The researchers obtained the self-reported information from the National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior and used responses from 4,155 people in 2009 and 4,547 people in 2018. These respondents to the confidential survey ranged in age from 14 to 49 years > ... > The decline in adolescent masturbation is interesting, and we were the first to include it. That one deserves a lot more attention 1) Includes adolescents and older people 2) Covers "no sexual activity, either alone or with partners" which is far broader than sex Here is an article with a link to a study that actually provides evidence related to the statement: https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/06/iub/releases/15-sexual-inactivity-young-men-united-states-no-sex-debby-herbenick.html https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/06/iub/releases/15-sexual-i... Study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2767066?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2767063 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... > The study [...] looked at the sexual activity and number of partners of 18- to 44-year-olds in the U.S. from 2000 to 2018. > During that time, the researchers found that sexual inactivity had increased from 19 percent to 31 percent among men age 18 to 24. Men and women age 25 to 34 also reported an increase in sexual inactivity during the time period. This coincided with decreases in those who had sex at least weekly and in those with one sexual partner over the past year, while the proportion of men and women with two or more partners in the past year had remained largely unchanged. It was 15% -> 19% for women age 18 to 24 in the same period. > More men than women reported having no sexual partner (16.4% vs 12.0%; P = .04) and 3 or more partners (14.5% vs 7.1%; P < .001), whereas fewer men reported weekly or more sexual activity (46.7% vs 53.3%; P = .02) and 1 sexual partner (57.5% vs 74.2%; P < .001). Differences between the sexes were most pronounced among those aged 18 to 24 and 25 to 34 years. The study also happens to provide evidence for the GPs argument that young women are "all dating the same guy".
vmception 5y ago
People aren’t willing to have the conversation that acknowledges 1) most men aren't attractive to women at no fault of their own and aren't included in the perceptions of consensually hooking up with or dating men. Its easier to denigrate a man that ever speaks up about a poor experience dating (your profile wasn't good, your game wasn't good) 2) that men have any trouble at all. so a lot of people have withdrawn from that conversation. Giving that there is a symbiosis involved, the experience of all genders is all part of the same discussion.
- bradlys 5y ago
  Men having trouble is shown as not masculine. The dialogue goes: If you were a man - you wouldn't have troubles. By having trouble therefore you are not a man. Thus, you do not deserve respect, to be listened to, etc. You are just a boy, at most. We don't listen to boys.
  - vmception 5y ago
    That is what is said, and also expected by a large distribution of people of all genders. Reality is that the competition is doing many nonconsensual things at all steps of the way. Its really disgusting (if you care about that at all) and it undermines the handwavy ambiguous logic of “masculine man getting the women”, they are saying that a masculine person can get into or out of any situation with using force, the implicit threat of force along with resolve to use it, and that this concept alone is appreciated to create sexual desire. That's impossible to reconcile in a consent driven and collaborative world. Many/most men are not attractive, when apps are involved the inputs are still mostly visual, compared to the inputs possible in person that are also relevant across genders. Women are with the same men and build their own frustrations off of the same few men they are predominantly being with.
mgh2 5y ago
Makes me remember of this controversial article: https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/why-women-lose-the-dating-g...
- mgh2 5y ago
  Related: https://quillette.com/2021/06/28/mate-selection-for-modernity/ https://quillette.com/2021/06/28/mate-selection-for-modernit... https://ifstudies.org/blog/whither-hypergamy https://ifstudies.org/blog/whither-hypergamy
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  Its submission from many years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6611747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6611747

jawarner 5y ago

> The 4x self-inflicted death rate compared to women should be evidence enough. This seems like a manipulative use of mental health statistics. Need I remind you that women attempt suicide at a much greater rate than men? Regardless everyone is responsible for their own emotional well-being at the end of the day. It's not right to blame women for male loneliness. After all, I can just as easily flip the script. If your claim is that heterosexual men are miserable due to a lack of dating prospects, then there are an equal number of frustrating heterosexual women unable to find a good relationship. Don't they also feel loneliness? The truth is that dating is hard, and it can be painful for everyone, men and women. Women also encounter a unique set of problems when it comes to dating, e.g., violence, that is experienced less by men.

bradlys 5y ago
Women attempt at a higher rate because they're often not looking to actually die - they're making a plea for help. Men don't attempt like that because no one is going to come knocking or respond to a plea for help - they just end it. The thinking of 1:1 is where you go wrong. First off - more men exist below 40 than women. Men are born at 105-107:100 ratio, NATURALLY. If it was equal - why are the stats on male sex so much more grim than for women? Oh, that's right - because again - multiple women are sharing one man. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-americans-not-having-sex-has-reached-record-high/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/03/29/share-ame... I really wish we'd get away from this narrative that violence or abuse is only something that women encounter in relationships. Figured the Depp vs Heard trial would make that more obvious to everyday people out here but guess not. I know many men who were abused by women - it is not often reported or talked about because it is - again - incredibly shameful to a degree that makes other people question the survivors "manliness" and worthiness of being a "man". It's also not taken seriously at all. I still think women suffer more often at physical abuse but mental abuse - idk - not clear on that one.
- jawarner 5y ago
  You’re not really responding to my points. You’re trying to enforce a sense of male victim hood that isn’t supported by the evidence you’re presenting.

nl 5y ago

> most men are just not having sex in their 20s anymore This is misleading and seems to be trying to paint a picture of male victimhood that just isn't statistically supported. It's true that in the US people (both male and female) are having sex now than in the 1990s: > Between 2009 and 2018, the proportion of adolescents reporting no sexual activity, either alone or with partners, rose from 28.8 percent to 44.2 percent among young men and from 49.5 percent in 2009 to 74 percent among young women.[1] It's worth noting that less women than men are having sex, and the decline amongst women has been greater than amoung men. [1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-have-been-having-less-sex-whether-theyre-teenagers-or-40-somethings/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-have-been-...

ZephyrBlu 5y ago
I really have to wonder if you googled something and picked the first result without reading it, because your source doesn't refute anything about the GPs statement that "most men are just not having sex in their 20s anymore". > The researchers obtained the self-reported information from the National Survey of Sexual Health and Behavior and used responses from 4,155 people in 2009 and 4,547 people in 2018. These respondents to the confidential survey ranged in age from 14 to 49 years > ... > The decline in adolescent masturbation is interesting, and we were the first to include it. That one deserves a lot more attention 1) Includes adolescents and older people 2) Covers "no sexual activity, either alone or with partners" which is far broader than sex Here is an article with a link to a study that actually provides evidence related to the statement: https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/06/iub/releases/15-sexual-inactivity-young-men-united-states-no-sex-debby-herbenick.html https://news.iu.edu/stories/2020/06/iub/releases/15-sexual-i... Study: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2767066?widget=personalizedcontent&previousarticle=2767063 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... > The study [...] looked at the sexual activity and number of partners of 18- to 44-year-olds in the U.S. from 2000 to 2018. > During that time, the researchers found that sexual inactivity had increased from 19 percent to 31 percent among men age 18 to 24. Men and women age 25 to 34 also reported an increase in sexual inactivity during the time period. This coincided with decreases in those who had sex at least weekly and in those with one sexual partner over the past year, while the proportion of men and women with two or more partners in the past year had remained largely unchanged. It was 15% -> 19% for women age 18 to 24 in the same period. > More men than women reported having no sexual partner (16.4% vs 12.0%; P = .04) and 3 or more partners (14.5% vs 7.1%; P < .001), whereas fewer men reported weekly or more sexual activity (46.7% vs 53.3%; P = .02) and 1 sexual partner (57.5% vs 74.2%; P < .001). Differences between the sexes were most pronounced among those aged 18 to 24 and 25 to 34 years. The study also happens to provide evidence for the GPs argument that young women are "all dating the same guy".

vmception 5y ago

People aren’t willing to have the conversation that acknowledges 1) most men aren't attractive to women at no fault of their own and aren't included in the perceptions of consensually hooking up with or dating men. Its easier to denigrate a man that ever speaks up about a poor experience dating (your profile wasn't good, your game wasn't good) 2) that men have any trouble at all. so a lot of people have withdrawn from that conversation. Giving that there is a symbiosis involved, the experience of all genders is all part of the same discussion.

bradlys 5y ago
Men having trouble is shown as not masculine. The dialogue goes: If you were a man - you wouldn't have troubles. By having trouble therefore you are not a man. Thus, you do not deserve respect, to be listened to, etc. You are just a boy, at most. We don't listen to boys.
- vmception 5y ago
  That is what is said, and also expected by a large distribution of people of all genders. Reality is that the competition is doing many nonconsensual things at all steps of the way. Its really disgusting (if you care about that at all) and it undermines the handwavy ambiguous logic of “masculine man getting the women”, they are saying that a masculine person can get into or out of any situation with using force, the implicit threat of force along with resolve to use it, and that this concept alone is appreciated to create sexual desire. That's impossible to reconcile in a consent driven and collaborative world. Many/most men are not attractive, when apps are involved the inputs are still mostly visual, compared to the inputs possible in person that are also relevant across genders. Women are with the same men and build their own frustrations off of the same few men they are predominantly being with.

mgh2 5y ago

Makes me remember of this controversial article: https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/why-women-lose-the-dating-game-20120421-1xdn0.html https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/why-women-lose-the-dating-g...

mgh2 5y ago
Related: https://quillette.com/2021/06/28/mate-selection-for-modernity/ https://quillette.com/2021/06/28/mate-selection-for-modernit... https://ifstudies.org/blog/whither-hypergamy https://ifstudies.org/blog/whither-hypergamy
ZephyrBlu 5y ago
Its submission from many years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6611747 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6611747