3 ms·

I always wanted to get more into electronics but I knew tools were crap so I was putting it aside but last year I finally started tinkering with electronics and

by dvh 5y ago

I always wanted to get more into electronics but I knew tools were crap so I was putting it aside but last year I finally started tinkering with electronics and so naturally I tried all the electronics simulators and design tools in Ubuntu repository. I've tried maybe 20 different apps. They all equally garbage. This was supposed to be a relaxing hobby, and instead I was just getting angry with ridiculous design decisions and obnoxious bugs. Let me tell you something, if software has autosave feature you can be almost certain it it steaming pile of shit. After several keyboard bashing episodes, for my own sanity, I decided either I make my own schematic design tool and simulator or I'll give up on this hobby. In a day I had proof of concept, in 2 weeks I had working prototype, in a month I had decent tool I could actually use for real stuff. For comparison, the easiest and most stable for me was Caneda. But to change resistor value and see change in output you need 7 clicks ffs! It would take ages to design anything, my tool simply uses mouse wheel over component to change its value by 1% or 10% (shift). What takes me 30s would take me hours in other tools. And my tool doesn't even have autosave. It doesn't need it, it never crashes, ever! There are 3 unbound loops in my schematic editor, I know where they are and I added code that prevents it from freezing. It is literally impossible to crash it. Even during the development it rarely broke, I guess the "pro" tools are built differently. Then few weeks later as I was making more and more complex circuits I designed perfboard design tool and now I have everything I need. I've been really happy with it, no bugs, no crappy UI. I should have done it years ago. Designing circuits is now my happy place. I think the authors of other design tools try to hide their bad core design by adding million features and thousands of components, but if the core products is crap, it will be crap even if you add 20'000 to92 transistors, it will just take you longer find component you need. I was considering releasing it but it would take too much time to get it to the state others can use it and I don't have that kind of time (it runs in browser but needs locally running ngspice running in the background via php server). But if you are like me and you find all other tools garbage, make your own, seriously, is not that hard and it is very rewarding, my first POC was literally screenshot of scheme with wheel changing netlist values, running ngspice, showing transient analysis in chart. Schematic design tool and simulator: https://de.catbox.moe/hcoapj.png https://de.catbox.moe/hcoapj.png Perfboard tool: https://de.catbox.moe/uq8si4.png https://de.catbox.moe/uq8si4.png

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
> But to change resistor value and see change in output you need 7 clicks ffs! KiCAD at least is heavily oriented around keyboard shortcuts. To change a resistor value, you mouse over the resistor, press `v`, type the value, and press enter. 0 clicks, 2 keys + however many digits in the value. And it doesn't autosave.
dylan604 5y ago
> if software has autosave feature you can be almost certain it it steaming pile of shit. I once had to use a program that had no save feature at all. I don't know if each change was made immediately, or if it dumped at close. Of all my years using the software, I never even inquired about it. I just remember learning to use it and the lack of save was pointed out then thinking about how strange that was. After using the program, I never even thought about the no save again.
Brian_K_White 5y ago
Strange. Drawing pcbs in kicad is one of the most soothing and relaxing things I do on my computer. For about the first 30 monutes I did fight with with the basic navigation based on zooming out then back in, instead of just panning, but as long as I have an even minimally good mouse (mx anywhere 2, 2s, 3 for myself) it's fine. It's annoying on the track pad or a mouse without a good wheel. And that's pretty much it. It only bothered me for the first few minutes to maybe an hour. Everything else is just learning where a few settings or tools are, and getting a few basic ideas about how the schematic ties to the pcb. Those aren't really communicated very well by the app itself. I pretty much figured it out by just trying stuff and noticing what it did, but there are also tons of videos that just show you. Almost immediately I was drawing pcbs and loving it.
BugWatch 5y ago
I'd suggest releasing it as-is, anyway, with a short writeup what needs to be done. Someone might be willing to pick it up.
whartung 5y ago
I'm in the same boat. All of my stabs into the ECAD tools have just felt like trips into dark rooms with lots of pointy shelves at different heights to bonk my head into. None of them have been satisfactory experiences. I, too, have made progress on my own tool. Mostly focusing on just laying out Gerber files. I haven't made the progress you have made, but the idea that the tools trouble me enough to abandon them and just start from scratch, is interesting. What's worse, is that having dabbled with both KiCad and Eagle (and probably others) and neither rises up above to a level that I was having any real success. They both look like they were cut from the same cloth, no doubt designed in the 80's and just working on "workflow momentum" of the industry, because they don't want to retrain anyone that's been doing this for 30 years.

by dvh 5y ago

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago

> But to change resistor value and see change in output you need 7 clicks ffs! KiCAD at least is heavily oriented around keyboard shortcuts. To change a resistor value, you mouse over the resistor, press `v`, type the value, and press enter. 0 clicks, 2 keys + however many digits in the value. And it doesn't autosave.

dylan604 5y ago

> if software has autosave feature you can be almost certain it it steaming pile of shit. I once had to use a program that had no save feature at all. I don't know if each change was made immediately, or if it dumped at close. Of all my years using the software, I never even inquired about it. I just remember learning to use it and the lack of save was pointed out then thinking about how strange that was. After using the program, I never even thought about the no save again.

Brian_K_White 5y ago

Strange. Drawing pcbs in kicad is one of the most soothing and relaxing things I do on my computer. For about the first 30 monutes I did fight with with the basic navigation based on zooming out then back in, instead of just panning, but as long as I have an even minimally good mouse (mx anywhere 2, 2s, 3 for myself) it's fine. It's annoying on the track pad or a mouse without a good wheel. And that's pretty much it. It only bothered me for the first few minutes to maybe an hour. Everything else is just learning where a few settings or tools are, and getting a few basic ideas about how the schematic ties to the pcb. Those aren't really communicated very well by the app itself. I pretty much figured it out by just trying stuff and noticing what it did, but there are also tons of videos that just show you. Almost immediately I was drawing pcbs and loving it.

BugWatch 5y ago

I'd suggest releasing it as-is, anyway, with a short writeup what needs to be done. Someone might be willing to pick it up.

whartung 5y ago

I'm in the same boat. All of my stabs into the ECAD tools have just felt like trips into dark rooms with lots of pointy shelves at different heights to bonk my head into. None of them have been satisfactory experiences. I, too, have made progress on my own tool. Mostly focusing on just laying out Gerber files. I haven't made the progress you have made, but the idea that the tools trouble me enough to abandon them and just start from scratch, is interesting. What's worse, is that having dabbled with both KiCad and Eagle (and probably others) and neither rises up above to a level that I was having any real success. They both look like they were cut from the same cloth, no doubt designed in the 80's and just working on "workflow momentum" of the industry, because they don't want to retrain anyone that's been doing this for 30 years.