5 ms·

Hmmm I might be the odd one out but I really don’t want apple to be opening up payment options and nfc for payment to anyone on iPhone/watch.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago
Why?
jasonlotito 5y ago
Why are you opposed to consumer choice? Why do you feel it's fair that once you purchase something form Apple, you must go through Apple to make all future purchases?
- martimarkov 5y ago
  With the same validity I can ask why are you against security and ease of use? Ppl buy Apple products and KNOW AND ACCEPT the limitations when making that purchase. There are alternatives- get an android phone, there are plenty of brands there. I buy Apple products ESPECIALLY for the locked down OS. Why are you against my consumer choice? If any alternative store, payment, in app purchase is introduced - I’m deprived of my choice. And now there isn’t a closed OS I can use. There are actual reasons I want that OS. My parents had android devices and they got scammed at least once a month to share their details and their cards got stolen as they would download apps and those app would “guide” them how install apps from untrusted sources while promising “enabling free bank transactions access”. After moving to iOS none of that happened. I get the odd subscription I need to cancel but I do that from the phone - not another system.
  - withinboredom 5y ago
    When I got my first iPhone, such “limitations” weren’t really an issue. As a 30’s something dev, I understand them much more deeply than I did when I made the initial purchase. I now have a number of apps that I use on a daily basis, some of which I’ve paid 100’s of dollars to acquire over the years. Thus simply “getting Android,” is quite an expensive prospect and we haven’t even talked about the social implications.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    Since buying my mum an iPhone I haven’t had to help her with it once. It just works. If you subscribe on an app for a monthly subscription. If you delete the app it asks if you want to keep the subscription or cancel it. Without the apple ecosystem in place this would silently keep charging her monthly. She can buy stuff without entering cc details or using random payment apps and not get scammed. Everyone seems to want the sex appeal of apple products but with the freedom of android. Why not just skin android and use an android phone and leave iOS as is.
    - layer8 5y ago
      > Since buying my mum an iPhone I haven’t had to help her with it once. It just works. I can tell you that I had a wildly different experience in that respect. A lot of stuff is nonintuitive and works in quirky ways, with occasional buggy behavior. (Not Apple Pay specifically, she doesn’t use that.)
      - martimarkov 4y ago
        Late but one thing to add is that my parents can now just call apple or chat with them and not call me for - I think my email is not working as I haven't received anything in the last hour.
  - strangetortoise 5y ago
    Why couldn't this be solved by Apple simply adding a feature that allows you to lock the installation sources behind a PIN? We've had these type of restrictions for other subsystems, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible here? (Modulo security vulnerabilities, but those exist for the current iOS ecosystem as well). Example. I could set my parents' device up so they can only install from curated stores (Let's say App Store & Epic Games store, if they were inclined to play games). Now I don't have to worry about them being scammed into sideloading shady apps, they don't have the PIN; and I get all my freedom to install whatever I want. I'd be honestly happy to hear an argument for why this wouldn't work, cause I haven't been able to work it out. edit: In a world where apple is mandated to provide sideloading access, it's even in their interest to provide such a feature. It allows them to hold up their "we're security focused" claim, while at the same time potentially increasing revenue (in my example, my parents are still vendor-locked, just by me, their "digital guardian").
    - martimarkov 4y ago
      That is true. I’m okay with that approach but if it works for everything. Like for example in-app purchases as well. I don’t want to use the subscription service of every app out there. I want to use the Apple subscription model where I keep everything on the App Store. If apps are mandated to use the Apple APIs for payments but they can have other means of payment and I can block those from showing using the above PIN functionality- I’m okay. And it’s again a win-win scenario. Well maybe not developers who most likely will see that ppl trust the Apple system and not their 3rd party payment methods even if they are cheaper. Basically what I argue for is that I should have a choice to have my phone locked up like it currently is and App Store publishers should not be the ppl who tell me how to use my device. That is all I want and have against side loading and alternatives. I think your idea could work. :)
- owisd 5y ago
  Playing devil’s advocate, but consumer choice isn’t some silver bullet to magic up better outcomes. Corporations can hire armies of risk analysts to understand the product they are selling better than you ever can as a consumer, so there’s almost always an information asymmetry that they can exploit. Good quality regulation would exist to redress that balance, even though it would reduce the number of potential choices. All the choices that it would prevent were never good faith options.
zamalek 5y ago
Then simply don't use the alternatives. That's your choice.
- jackson1442 5y ago
  Until the alternatives pull themselves out of the centralized system. That’s also their _choice._
  - withinboredom 5y ago
    Consumers switch banks all the time…
    - jackson1442 4y ago
      Doesn’t make it any less of a shit user experience. Last time I switched banks they lost my initial deposit - more than half of my cash - and my balance was -$deposit. Took hours of phone calls and (multiple!) branch visits to resolve because the sending bank wouldn’t pick up the phone. One of my most stressful experiences, financially.
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        That sounds like an outlier experience. I’ve used dozens of banks over my lifetime and never had a bad experience except this one time the teller accidentally added a few dozen zeros to a check I deposited.
        jackson1442 4y ago
        It may be an outlier, but consumers are especially vulnerable to issues like this while switching banks. One small hiccup can make you lose a very large % of your cash on hand, since usually you aren't working with >= 50% of your funds on a daily basis.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 5y ago

Why?

jasonlotito 5y ago

Why are you opposed to consumer choice? Why do you feel it's fair that once you purchase something form Apple, you must go through Apple to make all future purchases?

martimarkov 5y ago
With the same validity I can ask why are you against security and ease of use? Ppl buy Apple products and KNOW AND ACCEPT the limitations when making that purchase. There are alternatives- get an android phone, there are plenty of brands there. I buy Apple products ESPECIALLY for the locked down OS. Why are you against my consumer choice? If any alternative store, payment, in app purchase is introduced - I’m deprived of my choice. And now there isn’t a closed OS I can use. There are actual reasons I want that OS. My parents had android devices and they got scammed at least once a month to share their details and their cards got stolen as they would download apps and those app would “guide” them how install apps from untrusted sources while promising “enabling free bank transactions access”. After moving to iOS none of that happened. I get the odd subscription I need to cancel but I do that from the phone - not another system.
- withinboredom 5y ago
  When I got my first iPhone, such “limitations” weren’t really an issue. As a 30’s something dev, I understand them much more deeply than I did when I made the initial purchase. I now have a number of apps that I use on a daily basis, some of which I’ve paid 100’s of dollars to acquire over the years. Thus simply “getting Android,” is quite an expensive prospect and we haven’t even talked about the social implications.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  Since buying my mum an iPhone I haven’t had to help her with it once. It just works. If you subscribe on an app for a monthly subscription. If you delete the app it asks if you want to keep the subscription or cancel it. Without the apple ecosystem in place this would silently keep charging her monthly. She can buy stuff without entering cc details or using random payment apps and not get scammed. Everyone seems to want the sex appeal of apple products but with the freedom of android. Why not just skin android and use an android phone and leave iOS as is.
  - layer8 5y ago
    > Since buying my mum an iPhone I haven’t had to help her with it once. It just works. I can tell you that I had a wildly different experience in that respect. A lot of stuff is nonintuitive and works in quirky ways, with occasional buggy behavior. (Not Apple Pay specifically, she doesn’t use that.)
    - martimarkov 4y ago
      Late but one thing to add is that my parents can now just call apple or chat with them and not call me for - I think my email is not working as I haven't received anything in the last hour.
- strangetortoise 5y ago
  Why couldn't this be solved by Apple simply adding a feature that allows you to lock the installation sources behind a PIN? We've had these type of restrictions for other subsystems, so I don't see why it wouldn't be possible here? (Modulo security vulnerabilities, but those exist for the current iOS ecosystem as well). Example. I could set my parents' device up so they can only install from curated stores (Let's say App Store & Epic Games store, if they were inclined to play games). Now I don't have to worry about them being scammed into sideloading shady apps, they don't have the PIN; and I get all my freedom to install whatever I want. I'd be honestly happy to hear an argument for why this wouldn't work, cause I haven't been able to work it out. edit: In a world where apple is mandated to provide sideloading access, it's even in their interest to provide such a feature. It allows them to hold up their "we're security focused" claim, while at the same time potentially increasing revenue (in my example, my parents are still vendor-locked, just by me, their "digital guardian").
  - martimarkov 4y ago
    That is true. I’m okay with that approach but if it works for everything. Like for example in-app purchases as well. I don’t want to use the subscription service of every app out there. I want to use the Apple subscription model where I keep everything on the App Store. If apps are mandated to use the Apple APIs for payments but they can have other means of payment and I can block those from showing using the above PIN functionality- I’m okay. And it’s again a win-win scenario. Well maybe not developers who most likely will see that ppl trust the Apple system and not their 3rd party payment methods even if they are cheaper. Basically what I argue for is that I should have a choice to have my phone locked up like it currently is and App Store publishers should not be the ppl who tell me how to use my device. That is all I want and have against side loading and alternatives. I think your idea could work. :)
owisd 5y ago
Playing devil’s advocate, but consumer choice isn’t some silver bullet to magic up better outcomes. Corporations can hire armies of risk analysts to understand the product they are selling better than you ever can as a consumer, so there’s almost always an information asymmetry that they can exploit. Good quality regulation would exist to redress that balance, even though it would reduce the number of potential choices. All the choices that it would prevent were never good faith options.

zamalek 5y ago

Then simply don't use the alternatives. That's your choice.

jackson1442 5y ago
Until the alternatives pull themselves out of the centralized system. That’s also their _choice._
- withinboredom 5y ago
  Consumers switch banks all the time…
  - jackson1442 4y ago
    Doesn’t make it any less of a shit user experience. Last time I switched banks they lost my initial deposit - more than half of my cash - and my balance was -$deposit. Took hours of phone calls and (multiple!) branch visits to resolve because the sending bank wouldn’t pick up the phone. One of my most stressful experiences, financially.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      That sounds like an outlier experience. I’ve used dozens of banks over my lifetime and never had a bad experience except this one time the teller accidentally added a few dozen zeros to a check I deposited.
      - jackson1442 4y ago
        It may be an outlier, but consumers are especially vulnerable to issues like this while switching banks. One small hiccup can make you lose a very large % of your cash on hand, since usually you aren't working with >= 50% of your funds on a daily basis.