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> This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" No, it was a good-faith question of who finds it useful (for what type of work) these days. I

> This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" No, it was a good-faith question of who finds it useful (for what type of work) these days. I think it's a fair question since every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads. As context, I added that I, personally, find it ruins my screen on an otherwise good laptop. Why the rant about keyboard shortcuts? The only answer you gave to my question was essentially, "over my dead body." No explanation that would help me understand you.

Stratoscope 4y ago
You are right, my rant about keyboard shortcuts was not really related to your question and did not answer it. So with apologies for my rather tangential analogy, let me explain how I got there. I recently read a ThinkPad review where the author said something like "Why does Lenovo insist in keeping this stupid red nubbin when nobody uses it?" In other words, "I don't use it, so I can't imagine that anyone else would." I misinterpreted your question as being in that same vein. Others have given some more direct answers, but let me add mine. As a touch typist, the TrackPoint is the only pointing device that is directly available with my fingers on the home row. With a touchpad, and especially with a mouse, you have to be in "typing mode" or "pointing and clicking mode". You can't intermix the two modes seamlessly, as you can with the TrackPoint. Another advantage is the presence of physical mouse buttons. Some other laptops do have these, but they seem to have fallen out of favor to allow a bigger touchpad. The physical buttons let you position the mouse pointer and then click without any chance of the pointer drifting a few pixels while you click. I also really appreciate your followup question, "What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?" My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines: "I don't use the TrackPoint and in fact I removed the cap because it was leaving marks on my screen. But I'm curious to hear from those who use it. What do you like about it?" In any case, thank you for stimulating an interesting discussion! p.s. Regarding the screen, I think some of the older ThinkPads may have been more susceptible to this. I also wonder if the screen marking may be due to putting the ThinkPad in a backpack where other objects put pressure in the middle of the lid. I generally carry two ThinkPads in my backpack, my personal and work machines, and I pack them with the tops facing each other and a cotton dishtowel in between. I need a towel anyway to clean the screens and my eyeglasses, and putting the towel between the two tops prevents them from scratching each other. This way the bases of the machines are facing out, and these are much more robust than the lids.
- tommiegannert 4y ago
  Thank you for the follow-up! Very thorough. Sorry if I was being rude. I do use the mouse buttons on occasion. I can't actually remember the last time I used the trackpoint. I did in some cases, but the annoyance over the dirty screen became too much and it had to go. ;) Re. lid pressure, that will certainly make it worse, but the T460s I use at home rarely goes outdoors, so I don't think that's the cause. I see dirt build-up on the screen even now that the trackpoint is below the keys, so there's probably finger oils rubbing off the keys as well. Oh, and maybe using the rubber a lot will flatten it so rubbing is less of a problem. > My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines Thanks. I still find it amusing that politness and humbleness is not the implied default, but something that needs to be made explicit every time. I should have taken the time to write something longer. :\ Next time.
NikolaNovak 4y ago
It does not appear to be a good-faith question or at least there does not appear to be a true effort to understand it. FWIW, I use pointing stick and the poster's analogy is the one I wish I could've used for decade - it is friendly and detailed and perfectly represents my use case and feelings (and is much better explanation than my own sibling comment, which was admittedly more of a "over my dead body" :). Like keyboard shortcuts for those who use them, it has more of a learning curve but (we feel) is ultimately a much faster, more efficient and effective method of doing things. You don't have to agree, it may not be for everyone - as I mentioned in sibling response, my wife and I will forever use our laptops differently, and that's OK! (if we want to start a parallel religious war, let's talk about 3.5mm on phones too! :> ) >> every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads Note that at various points, until very recently, Dell, HP, Toshiba etc all had power-user oriented models with pointing sticks. If they've gotten rid of them in the last year or two, that is indeed a sad news for many of us - it was never a "either/or" proposition. There's already Apple and many knock-off for those who prefer it; I hope that a laptop for power-users still has a profitable niche :-/
- tommiegannert 4y ago
  Thank you for providing a useful answer, despite not believing it was posted in good faith. You might be right about other producers still making sticks. I haven't been in the market for a few years. What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    I'm a random stranger on the internet, so with no intent on telling you how to live or interact :), My own limited biased subjective 0.0005 cents: 1. Original question: "Who's still using this?" is direct and to the point; I grok it. But note that some people in many contexts may interpret it... aggressive. Human mind fills in detail in blunt / short sentences. Politeness in some cases is filling in those blanks pre-emptively. Uncharitable reading of your question would fill in the blanks in "Who's still using this?" as "WHO is still using this?" expanded to "WHO is still using this???" expanded to "WHO is stupid enough to still be using this???". They/We would be wrong, but be cognizant of good and bad interpretations of writing. But that's very minor and extremely audience specific. Bigger point: 2. Charitable reading. This is such a hard thing to do for all of us, especially on the interwebs, especially when there's even a minor difference opinion. I thoroughly, genuinely, believe that the keyboard-shortcut poster provided best possible explanation and tried very heard to type it up and come up with meaningful analogy. I will totally steal it! :) When you read it / interpreted it as a rant / over-my-dead-body, I in turn did not feel you gave them a charitable reading, which subconsciously meant I did not give you a charitable reading either. So what I think would've made it appear as a true effort to understand, would've been... making a true effort to understand - reading the keyboard shortcut post with a mindset of "what information can I gleam from this / what can I learn / which insight can I take from this". Which, FWIW, is an approach that I think is phenomenally useful in life, I'm actively working on myself, and am successful some small percentage of time :D (again, not claiming some useful insight, but since you asked, my 100 Croatian Lipa :). All the best!

Stratoscope 4y ago

You are right, my rant about keyboard shortcuts was not really related to your question and did not answer it. So with apologies for my rather tangential analogy, let me explain how I got there. I recently read a ThinkPad review where the author said something like "Why does Lenovo insist in keeping this stupid red nubbin when nobody uses it?" In other words, "I don't use it, so I can't imagine that anyone else would." I misinterpreted your question as being in that same vein. Others have given some more direct answers, but let me add mine. As a touch typist, the TrackPoint is the only pointing device that is directly available with my fingers on the home row. With a touchpad, and especially with a mouse, you have to be in "typing mode" or "pointing and clicking mode". You can't intermix the two modes seamlessly, as you can with the TrackPoint. Another advantage is the presence of physical mouse buttons. Some other laptops do have these, but they seem to have fallen out of favor to allow a bigger touchpad. The physical buttons let you position the mouse pointer and then click without any chance of the pointer drifting a few pixels while you click. I also really appreciate your followup question, "What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?" My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines: "I don't use the TrackPoint and in fact I removed the cap because it was leaving marks on my screen. But I'm curious to hear from those who use it. What do you like about it?" In any case, thank you for stimulating an interesting discussion! p.s. Regarding the screen, I think some of the older ThinkPads may have been more susceptible to this. I also wonder if the screen marking may be due to putting the ThinkPad in a backpack where other objects put pressure in the middle of the lid. I generally carry two ThinkPads in my backpack, my personal and work machines, and I pack them with the tops facing each other and a cotton dishtowel in between. I need a towel anyway to clean the screens and my eyeglasses, and putting the towel between the two tops prevents them from scratching each other. This way the bases of the machines are facing out, and these are much more robust than the lids.

tommiegannert 4y ago
Thank you for the follow-up! Very thorough. Sorry if I was being rude. I do use the mouse buttons on occasion. I can't actually remember the last time I used the trackpoint. I did in some cases, but the annoyance over the dirty screen became too much and it had to go. ;) Re. lid pressure, that will certainly make it worse, but the T460s I use at home rarely goes outdoors, so I don't think that's the cause. I see dirt build-up on the screen even now that the trackpoint is below the keys, so there's probably finger oils rubbing off the keys as well. Oh, and maybe using the rubber a lot will flatten it so rubbing is less of a problem. > My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines Thanks. I still find it amusing that politness and humbleness is not the implied default, but something that needs to be made explicit every time. I should have taken the time to write something longer. :\ Next time.

NikolaNovak 4y ago

It does not appear to be a good-faith question or at least there does not appear to be a true effort to understand it. FWIW, I use pointing stick and the poster's analogy is the one I wish I could've used for decade - it is friendly and detailed and perfectly represents my use case and feelings (and is much better explanation than my own sibling comment, which was admittedly more of a "over my dead body" :). Like keyboard shortcuts for those who use them, it has more of a learning curve but (we feel) is ultimately a much faster, more efficient and effective method of doing things. You don't have to agree, it may not be for everyone - as I mentioned in sibling response, my wife and I will forever use our laptops differently, and that's OK! (if we want to start a parallel religious war, let's talk about 3.5mm on phones too! :> ) >> every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads Note that at various points, until very recently, Dell, HP, Toshiba etc all had power-user oriented models with pointing sticks. If they've gotten rid of them in the last year or two, that is indeed a sad news for many of us - it was never a "either/or" proposition. There's already Apple and many knock-off for those who prefer it; I hope that a laptop for power-users still has a profitable niche :-/

tommiegannert 4y ago
Thank you for providing a useful answer, despite not believing it was posted in good faith. You might be right about other producers still making sticks. I haven't been in the market for a few years. What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  I'm a random stranger on the internet, so with no intent on telling you how to live or interact :), My own limited biased subjective 0.0005 cents: 1. Original question: "Who's still using this?" is direct and to the point; I grok it. But note that some people in many contexts may interpret it... aggressive. Human mind fills in detail in blunt / short sentences. Politeness in some cases is filling in those blanks pre-emptively. Uncharitable reading of your question would fill in the blanks in "Who's still using this?" as "WHO is still using this?" expanded to "WHO is still using this???" expanded to "WHO is stupid enough to still be using this???". They/We would be wrong, but be cognizant of good and bad interpretations of writing. But that's very minor and extremely audience specific. Bigger point: 2. Charitable reading. This is such a hard thing to do for all of us, especially on the interwebs, especially when there's even a minor difference opinion. I thoroughly, genuinely, believe that the keyboard-shortcut poster provided best possible explanation and tried very heard to type it up and come up with meaningful analogy. I will totally steal it! :) When you read it / interpreted it as a rant / over-my-dead-body, I in turn did not feel you gave them a charitable reading, which subconsciously meant I did not give you a charitable reading either. So what I think would've made it appear as a true effort to understand, would've been... making a true effort to understand - reading the keyboard shortcut post with a mindset of "what information can I gleam from this / what can I learn / which insight can I take from this". Which, FWIW, is an approach that I think is phenomenally useful in life, I'm actively working on myself, and am successful some small percentage of time :D (again, not claiming some useful insight, but since you asked, my 100 Croatian Lipa :). All the best!