4 ms·

I find the discussion of ghosting interesting. If I've gone on a bad date or two I don't specifically tell the other person I don't want to see them again unles

I find the discussion of ghosting interesting. If I've gone on a bad date or two I don't specifically tell the other person I don't want to see them again unless they ask me. This allows for a lot more saving face if I run into them in the future (we can both pretend it just fell through the cracks) and is exactly how I want to be treated. While I appreciate the honesty I do find it a little condescending when someone messages me "just so you know, I don't want to see you again" after a bad date. But some people consider not doing this to be the equivalent of going from daily messaging to total radio silence out of nowhere after dating for months.

deepstack 4y ago
there is nothing to talk about ghosting. They just don't want to see you, get that as a valid communication and move on.
djbebs 4y ago
Tbh ghosting isn't as bad as saying one thing and then making excuses to not go through it. I've been on dates where I thought it went well, I got the "let's do this again", and then whenever I suggested "let's do it again on X day?" I get excuses. If they don't want to that's fine, they don't even have to say no just don't reply! But the leading on is annoying...
- fxtentacle 4y ago
  That might also be a communication mismatch. I've seen this situation a few times: Woman says "let's do this [going shopping as friends] again" and then later they are surprised when the Man suggests "let's do this [going on a date as potential partners] again". The [] part is implied and never said, which is why the miscommunication happens.
  - omniglottal 4y ago
    It's pretty clear to see that such miscommunication rises from a person's responsibility to be honest. "Let's do this again!" implies intent. If that intent does not actually exist, focus should be on such a lie and, by extension, the liar. While such (mis)communication becomes cultural, that still doesn't make it effective. Defending it is about wise as justifying the previously predominant signalling of women playing "hard to get" with someone they actually wanted to "get" them, and saying "no" while meaning "yes", yet being surprised at the subsequent rise in rape culture.
- librish 4y ago
  I think you might be interpreting this wrong. The "let's do this again" after the date is meaningless, that's just a social nicety no matter how the date went. When you ask them out and they give an excuse and no alternative I would interpret that as she didn't think the date went that well. Which leaves you with a couple of options: If you also were ambivalent about the date you now have the option of just fading out while both parties save face. If you really liked her and think you'll be a good match you can try and rescue the situation by suggesting a better date (better being some combination of more thoughtful, more expensive, or more personal). You're a little on the back foot but in my experience a lot of successful relationships start this way so you're by no means down and out.
  - omniglottal 4y ago
    Wouldn't it be preferable for the meaning of words to be reflected in the chosen combination of the words, themselves, instead of the (sub)culturally current, elusive content of the dog whistle tone behind them? Anything else reeks of an Orwellian dystopia to me.
  - TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
    The phrase used to be "Actions speak louder than words." If someone is perpetually unavailable, they're perpetually unavailable. Of course it's clearer if the other person says "I just don't think we're a good match", but actionable ambiguity is much more common.
- shoo 4y ago
  there are a number of factors involved -- but i reckon one factor to keep in mind is that some fraction of the population may become aggressive if rejected in person, so if you don't know your date well and have no idea how they might react, you might be more concerned about disengaging from the in-person situation safely than being completely open and up front about what you're thinking.
  - bell-cot 4y ago
    Ugh...but yeah, +1. OTOH - my sad impression is that quite a few women, especially very young ones, have so many wired-in anxieties / fears / areas of passivity that they'd have a hard time saying "no" to a guy who's receiving Last Rites (and not just out of charity for the dying). Hopefully, checking that is on the First Date Checklist in at least a few guy's guides... "#7 Verify that she can pleasantly but clearly say no to an oddball suggestion or few. If she actually answers 'yes' to skydiving, learning to read Egyptian hieroglyphs, and baking a cake for your birthday - then she has some issues that you really don't want to be stuck with."
- bell-cot 4y ago
  Charitably put, they're pretty good at communicating that they're pretty bad at communicating. Slight kudos for doing it quite early in the not-a-relationship. (And pencil in checkmarks by #2 and/or #3 in the article's "...ways these norms cause suffering" list.) Or you could say they're using a different "rule book", or "language", or set of social conventions - which are great reasons to avoid someone.
rocketbop 4y ago
I don't think what you describe in your first paragraph is what is generally meant by ghosting, it's more your second example. Lots of texting and communication for a number of weeks and then suddenly none.
enraged_camel 4y ago
>> I do find it a little condescending when someone messages me "just so you know, I don't want to see you again" after a bad date I mean, it could be said in a nicer way. "I don't think we're a good match" or something similar is a lot more polite, for example. Most people take it well, in my experience (maybe because the feeling tends to be mutual).
- hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
  I certainly appreciate it, and I think it can be done tactfully and respectfully. I think it's courteous to let someone know you aren't interested, just in case they are interested.
apatters 4y ago
What you're doing doesn't sound like ghosting. Ghosting is cutting off contact without warning or regard for the psychological consequences. It's very easy to not be a ghost, all you have to do is provide a kind resolution. If someone asks you out on another date but you don't want to see them again, you just say something like "I'm sorry, I've gotten really busy lately, if I do have the chance to get together, I'll reach out." No further communication is necessary. You've given them a plausible excuse that doesn't shred their ego too much and indicated that you're not interested in continuing. If you don't do this, some people will speculate that it was their fault, and beat themselves up. They may blame it on their weight, their looks, their personality, over time, it may erode their self esteem. So it's good etiquette to not be a ghost. Unfortunately millions of people don't care enough to bother.
- pgwhalen 4y ago
  I agree that ghosting should be defined as actively not responding to someone who is trying to get in touch with you. But I would suggest that if someone is forcing the issue and asking to meet again, it’s better to respond with a polite version of “sorry, I am not romantically interested in you” than it is to say “maybe sometime”.
- Ultimatt 4y ago
  This isn't that great. Plenty of people will be waiting to be "reached out" to. This is like "I'll call you" then they don't. Just be less of a weasel and tell people straight that you personally aren't that interested, which is no ones fault. If you think they'll take it badly give them some reassurance to cushion a hurt ego.
Ultimatt 4y ago
LOL the idea that "just so you know, I don't want to see you again" is the solution to ghosting is hilarious. That's someone being mean to you at a level about as damaging as ghosting. There is this magical thing called care that can be put into words to avoid either. "Just so you know, it was great to see you again, but there isn't anything romantic there for me. Sorry it took me X dates to get there. You're a cool person and I wish you all the best for your next date. I'm sure you'll blow the right person away when you meet them."
vmception 4y ago
Ghosting is abruptly not responding to attempts at communication. Men are in a decent privileged position where most women to most dates, culturally, wont initiate an attempt at communication. so its very easy for us to just never acknowledge the date because we never sent another text. But thats not ghosting. Ghosting is having a great date (or a benign one, or a bad one) and never getting a response again, or even blocked, or not even knowing if your date got home at all but not being in a position to even ask. As another person wrote, it doesn’t have any regard for the psychological consequences. Its more likely I would switch to Liam Neeson Taken mode to help a complete stranger than risk getting myself villified for trying to see if my unresponsive date made it home. The culture broke itself.

deepstack 4y ago

there is nothing to talk about ghosting. They just don't want to see you, get that as a valid communication and move on.

djbebs 4y ago

Tbh ghosting isn't as bad as saying one thing and then making excuses to not go through it. I've been on dates where I thought it went well, I got the "let's do this again", and then whenever I suggested "let's do it again on X day?" I get excuses. If they don't want to that's fine, they don't even have to say no just don't reply! But the leading on is annoying...

fxtentacle 4y ago
That might also be a communication mismatch. I've seen this situation a few times: Woman says "let's do this [going shopping as friends] again" and then later they are surprised when the Man suggests "let's do this [going on a date as potential partners] again". The [] part is implied and never said, which is why the miscommunication happens.
- omniglottal 4y ago
  It's pretty clear to see that such miscommunication rises from a person's responsibility to be honest. "Let's do this again!" implies intent. If that intent does not actually exist, focus should be on such a lie and, by extension, the liar. While such (mis)communication becomes cultural, that still doesn't make it effective. Defending it is about wise as justifying the previously predominant signalling of women playing "hard to get" with someone they actually wanted to "get" them, and saying "no" while meaning "yes", yet being surprised at the subsequent rise in rape culture.
librish 4y ago
I think you might be interpreting this wrong. The "let's do this again" after the date is meaningless, that's just a social nicety no matter how the date went. When you ask them out and they give an excuse and no alternative I would interpret that as she didn't think the date went that well. Which leaves you with a couple of options: If you also were ambivalent about the date you now have the option of just fading out while both parties save face. If you really liked her and think you'll be a good match you can try and rescue the situation by suggesting a better date (better being some combination of more thoughtful, more expensive, or more personal). You're a little on the back foot but in my experience a lot of successful relationships start this way so you're by no means down and out.
- omniglottal 4y ago
  Wouldn't it be preferable for the meaning of words to be reflected in the chosen combination of the words, themselves, instead of the (sub)culturally current, elusive content of the dog whistle tone behind them? Anything else reeks of an Orwellian dystopia to me.
- TheOtherHobbes 4y ago
  The phrase used to be "Actions speak louder than words." If someone is perpetually unavailable, they're perpetually unavailable. Of course it's clearer if the other person says "I just don't think we're a good match", but actionable ambiguity is much more common.
shoo 4y ago
there are a number of factors involved -- but i reckon one factor to keep in mind is that some fraction of the population may become aggressive if rejected in person, so if you don't know your date well and have no idea how they might react, you might be more concerned about disengaging from the in-person situation safely than being completely open and up front about what you're thinking.
- bell-cot 4y ago
  Ugh...but yeah, +1. OTOH - my sad impression is that quite a few women, especially very young ones, have so many wired-in anxieties / fears / areas of passivity that they'd have a hard time saying "no" to a guy who's receiving Last Rites (and not just out of charity for the dying). Hopefully, checking that is on the First Date Checklist in at least a few guy's guides... "#7 Verify that she can pleasantly but clearly say no to an oddball suggestion or few. If she actually answers 'yes' to skydiving, learning to read Egyptian hieroglyphs, and baking a cake for your birthday - then she has some issues that you really don't want to be stuck with."
bell-cot 4y ago
Charitably put, they're pretty good at communicating that they're pretty bad at communicating. Slight kudos for doing it quite early in the not-a-relationship. (And pencil in checkmarks by #2 and/or #3 in the article's "...ways these norms cause suffering" list.) Or you could say they're using a different "rule book", or "language", or set of social conventions - which are great reasons to avoid someone.

rocketbop 4y ago

I don't think what you describe in your first paragraph is what is generally meant by ghosting, it's more your second example. Lots of texting and communication for a number of weeks and then suddenly none.

enraged_camel 4y ago

>> I do find it a little condescending when someone messages me "just so you know, I don't want to see you again" after a bad date I mean, it could be said in a nicer way. "I don't think we're a good match" or something similar is a lot more polite, for example. Most people take it well, in my experience (maybe because the feeling tends to be mutual).

hahamrfunnyguy 4y ago
I certainly appreciate it, and I think it can be done tactfully and respectfully. I think it's courteous to let someone know you aren't interested, just in case they are interested.

apatters 4y ago

What you're doing doesn't sound like ghosting. Ghosting is cutting off contact without warning or regard for the psychological consequences. It's very easy to not be a ghost, all you have to do is provide a kind resolution. If someone asks you out on another date but you don't want to see them again, you just say something like "I'm sorry, I've gotten really busy lately, if I do have the chance to get together, I'll reach out." No further communication is necessary. You've given them a plausible excuse that doesn't shred their ego too much and indicated that you're not interested in continuing. If you don't do this, some people will speculate that it was their fault, and beat themselves up. They may blame it on their weight, their looks, their personality, over time, it may erode their self esteem. So it's good etiquette to not be a ghost. Unfortunately millions of people don't care enough to bother.

pgwhalen 4y ago
I agree that ghosting should be defined as actively not responding to someone who is trying to get in touch with you. But I would suggest that if someone is forcing the issue and asking to meet again, it’s better to respond with a polite version of “sorry, I am not romantically interested in you” than it is to say “maybe sometime”.
Ultimatt 4y ago
This isn't that great. Plenty of people will be waiting to be "reached out" to. This is like "I'll call you" then they don't. Just be less of a weasel and tell people straight that you personally aren't that interested, which is no ones fault. If you think they'll take it badly give them some reassurance to cushion a hurt ego.

Ultimatt 4y ago

LOL the idea that "just so you know, I don't want to see you again" is the solution to ghosting is hilarious. That's someone being mean to you at a level about as damaging as ghosting. There is this magical thing called care that can be put into words to avoid either. "Just so you know, it was great to see you again, but there isn't anything romantic there for me. Sorry it took me X dates to get there. You're a cool person and I wish you all the best for your next date. I'm sure you'll blow the right person away when you meet them."

vmception 4y ago

Ghosting is abruptly not responding to attempts at communication. Men are in a decent privileged position where most women to most dates, culturally, wont initiate an attempt at communication. so its very easy for us to just never acknowledge the date because we never sent another text. But thats not ghosting. Ghosting is having a great date (or a benign one, or a bad one) and never getting a response again, or even blocked, or not even knowing if your date got home at all but not being in a position to even ask. As another person wrote, it doesn’t have any regard for the psychological consequences. Its more likely I would switch to Liam Neeson Taken mode to help a complete stranger than risk getting myself villified for trying to see if my unresponsive date made it home. The culture broke itself.