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>- Unlimited sick days I very much doubt that. In most EU countries sick days are limited to 90 days, after that a panel of doctors will examine your case and

>- Unlimited sick days I very much doubt that. In most EU countries sick days are limited to 90 days, after that a panel of doctors will examine your case and move you to disability pay for example, as you can't just be on sick leave "unlimited".

louwrentius 5y ago
In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill. You can get the flu and be out for a week or so and nobody bats an eye. Some use more than others and some may game the system. But overall we in NL are not familiar with the stress of losing our days off because of illness. This should be the norm for every decent country that cares about human well-being.
- microtonal 5y ago
  Yeah, not having unlimited sick days also had the bad outcome that people go to work sick (to avoid using sick days) and infect other people.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  >In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill Isn't that illness called a sick day? Like I said, everyone calls it unlimited sick days, but in Austria, and I think in Poland, Germany too it's limited to 90 days per year. Sick longer than 90 days gets your cased evaluated by a doctor's committee and probably moved to disability pay. But I doubt there is such a thing as unlimited sick day. Sure, you can be sick for an unlimited time, but your employee and insurance status will change after a certain number of days.
  - louwrentius 5y ago
    I have not seen anything about 90 sick-days in any contract with an employer ever, even when I was still a regular 'waged' employee. Even if you get serious ill your employer has to pay, so from what I know, employers need to insure themselves against this. Only after 2 years are they off the hook and will people be transferred to disability pay if required. In some sense, discussing about 90 days vs. 'unlimited' sick days is not really relevant. 90 days would feel like unlimited to me as a regular healthy employee anyway. But to be very clear, in NL we don't have these 90 days of sick leave. We don't have a budget as an employee for sick leave.
    - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
      > I have not seen anything about 90 sick-days in any contract with an employer ever, even when I was still a regular 'waged' employee Have you checked your national insurance conditions? In Austria this also isn't in any employment contract because it's ratified in the national health insurance agreement everyone working here must have, which limits everyone to 90 days sick leave but many people don't know this and think they have "unlimited" sick leave. IIRC, Poland and Germany also have 90 days of sick leave by law. Maybe you're not fully aware of it but I'd assume your national health insurance will specify a similar threshold by law that's obviously not in your employment contract.
      - louwrentius 5y ago
        Forget about the 90 days, it doesn’t apply to NL. https://dutchreview.com/expat/sick-leave-netherlands/ https://dutchreview.com/expat/sick-leave-netherlands/ The two years I mentioned are right.
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        That's pretty good. I guess Austria just wants to be employer heaven.
        ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        From the link you posted, I find this baffling that this is allowed in Europe. >Some Dutch workplaces include “no-pay waiting days” (loonvrije wachtdagen) — these are the first one or two days of your sickness where the employer is not obliged to pay wages.
onion2k 5y ago
I very much doubt that. In most EU countries sick days are limited to 90 days, after that a panel of doctors will examine your case and move you to disability pay for example, as you can't just be on sick leave "unlimited". Here in the UK we can "self-certify" sickness for anything less than 5 days. If you're ill for less than a week then you just tell your boss you're ill and don't come to work. You're still paid. If you're ill for more than 5 days then you need to get sign off from a doctor. You're still paid for the time you're sick. If you're ill for several weeks or longer then you move to "statutory sick pay" which is usually less than your salary but some employers will still pay you your full salary. If you're off work for a really long time (6 months+) then most employers will negotiate with you to resign. At no point are you ever really in danger of losing your job though, or being forced to return to work. Employers are mostly pretty good about it, especially in tech. In theory I could be genuinely ill every other week for a full year and self-certify 26 individual weeks off without needing to visit a doctor or losing my job. In that sense, we absolutely do have "unlimited" sick days.

louwrentius 5y ago

In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill. You can get the flu and be out for a week or so and nobody bats an eye. Some use more than others and some may game the system. But overall we in NL are not familiar with the stress of losing our days off because of illness. This should be the norm for every decent country that cares about human well-being.

microtonal 5y ago
Yeah, not having unlimited sick days also had the bad outcome that people go to work sick (to avoid using sick days) and infect other people.
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
>In NL the concept of ‘sick days’ doesn’t exist. If you are ill, you are ill Isn't that illness called a sick day? Like I said, everyone calls it unlimited sick days, but in Austria, and I think in Poland, Germany too it's limited to 90 days per year. Sick longer than 90 days gets your cased evaluated by a doctor's committee and probably moved to disability pay. But I doubt there is such a thing as unlimited sick day. Sure, you can be sick for an unlimited time, but your employee and insurance status will change after a certain number of days.
- louwrentius 5y ago
  I have not seen anything about 90 sick-days in any contract with an employer ever, even when I was still a regular 'waged' employee. Even if you get serious ill your employer has to pay, so from what I know, employers need to insure themselves against this. Only after 2 years are they off the hook and will people be transferred to disability pay if required. In some sense, discussing about 90 days vs. 'unlimited' sick days is not really relevant. 90 days would feel like unlimited to me as a regular healthy employee anyway. But to be very clear, in NL we don't have these 90 days of sick leave. We don't have a budget as an employee for sick leave.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    > I have not seen anything about 90 sick-days in any contract with an employer ever, even when I was still a regular 'waged' employee Have you checked your national insurance conditions? In Austria this also isn't in any employment contract because it's ratified in the national health insurance agreement everyone working here must have, which limits everyone to 90 days sick leave but many people don't know this and think they have "unlimited" sick leave. IIRC, Poland and Germany also have 90 days of sick leave by law. Maybe you're not fully aware of it but I'd assume your national health insurance will specify a similar threshold by law that's obviously not in your employment contract.
    - louwrentius 5y ago
      Forget about the 90 days, it doesn’t apply to NL. https://dutchreview.com/expat/sick-leave-netherlands/ https://dutchreview.com/expat/sick-leave-netherlands/ The two years I mentioned are right.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        That's pretty good. I guess Austria just wants to be employer heaven.
      - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
        From the link you posted, I find this baffling that this is allowed in Europe. >Some Dutch workplaces include “no-pay waiting days” (loonvrije wachtdagen) — these are the first one or two days of your sickness where the employer is not obliged to pay wages.

onion2k 5y ago

I very much doubt that. In most EU countries sick days are limited to 90 days, after that a panel of doctors will examine your case and move you to disability pay for example, as you can't just be on sick leave "unlimited". Here in the UK we can "self-certify" sickness for anything less than 5 days. If you're ill for less than a week then you just tell your boss you're ill and don't come to work. You're still paid. If you're ill for more than 5 days then you need to get sign off from a doctor. You're still paid for the time you're sick. If you're ill for several weeks or longer then you move to "statutory sick pay" which is usually less than your salary but some employers will still pay you your full salary. If you're off work for a really long time (6 months+) then most employers will negotiate with you to resign. At no point are you ever really in danger of losing your job though, or being forced to return to work. Employers are mostly pretty good about it, especially in tech. In theory I could be genuinely ill every other week for a full year and self-certify 26 individual weeks off without needing to visit a doctor or losing my job. In that sense, we absolutely do have "unlimited" sick days.