5 ms·

I will never understand the fetishisation of metal as a "premium" feeling material - if anything, it's impractical for a laptop. (conducts heat so can be uncomf

by scrlk 4y ago

I will never understand the fetishisation of metal as a "premium" feeling material - if anything, it's impractical for a laptop. (conducts heat so can be uncomfortable to use on your lap if the thermal solution is poorly designed; dents/bends when dropped; probably harder for RF/antenna design...) It's the same reason why phones turned in to "premium" glass and metal sandwiches that people immediately slap in to a cheap plastic case because the "premium" design is simply too thin and slippery to use. Samsung was rightly nailed in the 2010s for producing horrible plastic phones, but Nokia's use of quality polycarbonate in their Lumias were ignored.

jillesvangurp 4y ago
I worked for Nokia. The Lumias had great hardware. And even Windows Phone wasn't that bad. If they'd bothered doubling down on Meego just when Google was still struggling with making Android usable, fast, and not an enormous mess, they would have had a chance. Instead they dumped it in favor of Symbian and later Windows Phone. MS bought the remains of Nokia, mismanaged it, and then cancelled the whole thing.
- doctor_lollipop 4y ago
  I'm still using my N9, great little phone...
skocznymroczny 4y ago
> It's the same reason why phones turned in to "premium" glass and metal sandwiches that people immediately slap in to a cheap plastic case because the "premium" design is simply too thin and slippery to use. People slap phones in to cheap plastic case to prevent scratches, or to make phones balanced in case of a camera sticking out of the back.
avidphantasm 4y ago
Plastic is made from oil, and has limited recyclability (the polymers degrade so at best you only down cycle). Aluminum is one of the most abundant materials in the earth’s crust, and once refined is basically infinitely recyclable (or so the story goes). Aluminum is also reasonable light and strong, with good thermal properties (if your laptop chassis gets too hot, it has other design issues at this point IMO).
- gtirloni 4y ago
  Producing Aluminum requires huge amounts of energy, which might not come from renewable sources. Always look the at complete manufacturing chain.
- peoplefromibiza 4y ago
  alluminium doesn't grow on trees either. plastic can be (almost) infinitely recycled for industrial use, it's food use that has limited recyclability. also: Macs are very hard to upgrade (sometimes it's impossible to) and become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk.
  - lloeki 4y ago
    > become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk. My experiences different, I'd still be rocking a 2014 MBP had it not suffered massive liquid damage. All Macs and MacBooks I or relatives have crossed or are going to cross the decade threshold with aplomb.
    - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
      > All Macs and MacBooks I or relatives have crossed or are going to cross the decade threshold with aplomb. I too own a couple of 10+ years old Mac laptops. They are perfect as doorstop. Once the RAM is soldiered or one of the main components gets out of production it's all about luck while it is simply a matter of repairing it or upgrading it in the case of an actually repairable "plastic" one.
      - lloeki 4y ago
        > Once the RAM is soldiered 8GB of RAM is plenty fine for me. I just don't have a thousand tabs opened (I never do anyway, whatever the RAM amount), which is mostly the usual problem but the state of the web platform and its runaway resource usage is another debate entirely. > one of the main components gets out of production it's all about luck You make it sound like it never happens with non-Apple hardware. With the flurry of devices that are put out every other month by a lot of hardware vendors, "out of production" often means a couple years, barely enough to cover warranty claims, and then they coast on stocked spare parts. I am in the habit of trying to revive legacy hardware when people throw it away, and have a closet full of hardware barely older than 2-3 years that could not be repaired because of a broken part that should have been perfectly repairable were the part be available. Usually these get fixed by having two broken machines and doing a transplant, not by sourcing original parts from manufacturers. Batteries are loads of fun, even just one year after a product release it might be impossible to source an original one, either because they have additional import legislation so they're outright not distributed overseas, or because they're deemed consumables when they're field-swappable, and thus often not covered by warranties (and thus vendors don't make any effort stocking them), so you're left with buying third-party ones of obscure origins which can be either duds or fire hazards waiting to happen with a non-negligible probability. At least Apple puts forward some hard numbers so I know what I can rely on†. Hell, just last year I restored a PoS system that had 1GB of RAM and a 8GB SSD, put some lightweight Linux on it, recovered a couple of ESC/POS thermal printers, hacked some bridge in Ruby between the PoS software and the printers, and the device chugged along for a solid year before finally giving up for good, which saved the store owner from shelling out stupid amounts of money and helped them bootstrap their business. With hundreds of machines from various vendors that went through my hands I feel I have enough statistically significant data to extract trends and draw my own conclusions. These don't support that Apple devices become e-waste in short order, but I respect that your experience and opinion might be different, even though I don't adhere to it. † https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624

by scrlk 4y ago

jillesvangurp 4y ago

I worked for Nokia. The Lumias had great hardware. And even Windows Phone wasn't that bad. If they'd bothered doubling down on Meego just when Google was still struggling with making Android usable, fast, and not an enormous mess, they would have had a chance. Instead they dumped it in favor of Symbian and later Windows Phone. MS bought the remains of Nokia, mismanaged it, and then cancelled the whole thing.

doctor_lollipop 4y ago
I'm still using my N9, great little phone...

skocznymroczny 4y ago

> It's the same reason why phones turned in to "premium" glass and metal sandwiches that people immediately slap in to a cheap plastic case because the "premium" design is simply too thin and slippery to use. People slap phones in to cheap plastic case to prevent scratches, or to make phones balanced in case of a camera sticking out of the back.

avidphantasm 4y ago

Plastic is made from oil, and has limited recyclability (the polymers degrade so at best you only down cycle). Aluminum is one of the most abundant materials in the earth’s crust, and once refined is basically infinitely recyclable (or so the story goes). Aluminum is also reasonable light and strong, with good thermal properties (if your laptop chassis gets too hot, it has other design issues at this point IMO).

gtirloni 4y ago
Producing Aluminum requires huge amounts of energy, which might not come from renewable sources. Always look the at complete manufacturing chain.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
alluminium doesn't grow on trees either. plastic can be (almost) infinitely recycled for industrial use, it's food use that has limited recyclability. also: Macs are very hard to upgrade (sometimes it's impossible to) and become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk.
- lloeki 4y ago
  > become e-trash in a couple of years, while these "plastic" laptops can last a decade before being discarded as junk. My experiences different, I'd still be rocking a 2014 MBP had it not suffered massive liquid damage. All Macs and MacBooks I or relatives have crossed or are going to cross the decade threshold with aplomb.
  - peoplefromibiza 4y ago
    > All Macs and MacBooks I or relatives have crossed or are going to cross the decade threshold with aplomb. I too own a couple of 10+ years old Mac laptops. They are perfect as doorstop. Once the RAM is soldiered or one of the main components gets out of production it's all about luck while it is simply a matter of repairing it or upgrading it in the case of an actually repairable "plastic" one.
    - lloeki 4y ago
      > Once the RAM is soldiered 8GB of RAM is plenty fine for me. I just don't have a thousand tabs opened (I never do anyway, whatever the RAM amount), which is mostly the usual problem but the state of the web platform and its runaway resource usage is another debate entirely. > one of the main components gets out of production it's all about luck You make it sound like it never happens with non-Apple hardware. With the flurry of devices that are put out every other month by a lot of hardware vendors, "out of production" often means a couple years, barely enough to cover warranty claims, and then they coast on stocked spare parts. I am in the habit of trying to revive legacy hardware when people throw it away, and have a closet full of hardware barely older than 2-3 years that could not be repaired because of a broken part that should have been perfectly repairable were the part be available. Usually these get fixed by having two broken machines and doing a transplant, not by sourcing original parts from manufacturers. Batteries are loads of fun, even just one year after a product release it might be impossible to source an original one, either because they have additional import legislation so they're outright not distributed overseas, or because they're deemed consumables when they're field-swappable, and thus often not covered by warranties (and thus vendors don't make any effort stocking them), so you're left with buying third-party ones of obscure origins which can be either duds or fire hazards waiting to happen with a non-negligible probability. At least Apple puts forward some hard numbers so I know what I can rely on†. Hell, just last year I restored a PoS system that had 1GB of RAM and a 8GB SSD, put some lightweight Linux on it, recovered a couple of ESC/POS thermal printers, hacked some bridge in Ruby between the PoS software and the printers, and the device chugged along for a solid year before finally giving up for good, which saved the store owner from shelling out stupid amounts of money and helped them bootstrap their business. With hundreds of machines from various vendors that went through my hands I feel I have enough statistically significant data to extract trends and draw my own conclusions. These don't support that Apple devices become e-waste in short order, but I respect that your experience and opinion might be different, even though I don't adhere to it. † https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624