5 ms·

This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F an

This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F and then A when they want to do a Save As... Right? Sure, it worked for the last 30 years. But come on, who ever would type Alt+F and A? It has to be less than 1% of all the Windows users out there. And our telemetry proves it! If you have a billion Windows users, and you rewrite Paint - as Microsoft did in Windows 11 - so it no longer knows the keyboard shortcuts that 1% of your users rely on, no big deal. You've only inconvenienced ten million of your users. Or you hit Alt+F4 on Paint and you have an unsaved image. There is a nice dialog that asks "Do you want to save your work?" And there is a really common case where you were just using Paint as a scratchpad and you would like to type Alt+N here to say "no worries, I was just fooling around." This dialog used to read "Yes | No | Cancel". And Alt+N let you say "No". In later days, the dialog changed to "Yes | Don't save | Cancel". But with a clever trick, Microsoft made the "n" in "Don't save" the shortcut key. So even with the updated and much more clear wording, your Alt+N still worked! Until Windows 11, where this code was all rewritten by people who never knew that anyone ever used these keyboard shortcuts. The TrackPoint may be something like this. Those of us who insist on it may be small in number. But if it is ever removed, then the one reason why we will only buy ThinkPads is gone. We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever.

murermader 5y ago
Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? I think it is literally impossible to exit the program without a mouse, after you did something that requires saving.
- capableweb 5y ago
  > Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? Lately I've been thinking of finally upgrading Windows 11 since they keep pushing untimely prompts to do so more and more frequently, but reading this makes me glad I've hold off. If they still have major bugs like that, I'll wait another year or two before considering it again.
ihateolives 5y ago
> The TrackPoint may be something like this. Those of us who insist on it may be small in number. But if it is ever removed, then the one reason why we will only buy ThinkPads is gone. We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever. You could buy Dell or HP with trackpoint already years ago. Not sure the current state, but trackpoint is not ThinkPad exclusive feature.
tommiegannert 5y ago
> This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" No, it was a good-faith question of who finds it useful (for what type of work) these days. I think it's a fair question since every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads. As context, I added that I, personally, find it ruins my screen on an otherwise good laptop. Why the rant about keyboard shortcuts? The only answer you gave to my question was essentially, "over my dead body." No explanation that would help me understand you.
- Stratoscope 5y ago
  You are right, my rant about keyboard shortcuts was not really related to your question and did not answer it. So with apologies for my rather tangential analogy, let me explain how I got there. I recently read a ThinkPad review where the author said something like "Why does Lenovo insist in keeping this stupid red nubbin when nobody uses it?" In other words, "I don't use it, so I can't imagine that anyone else would." I misinterpreted your question as being in that same vein. Others have given some more direct answers, but let me add mine. As a touch typist, the TrackPoint is the only pointing device that is directly available with my fingers on the home row. With a touchpad, and especially with a mouse, you have to be in "typing mode" or "pointing and clicking mode". You can't intermix the two modes seamlessly, as you can with the TrackPoint. Another advantage is the presence of physical mouse buttons. Some other laptops do have these, but they seem to have fallen out of favor to allow a bigger touchpad. The physical buttons let you position the mouse pointer and then click without any chance of the pointer drifting a few pixels while you click. I also really appreciate your followup question, "What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?" My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines: "I don't use the TrackPoint and in fact I removed the cap because it was leaving marks on my screen. But I'm curious to hear from those who use it. What do you like about it?" In any case, thank you for stimulating an interesting discussion! p.s. Regarding the screen, I think some of the older ThinkPads may have been more susceptible to this. I also wonder if the screen marking may be due to putting the ThinkPad in a backpack where other objects put pressure in the middle of the lid. I generally carry two ThinkPads in my backpack, my personal and work machines, and I pack them with the tops facing each other and a cotton dishtowel in between. I need a towel anyway to clean the screens and my eyeglasses, and putting the towel between the two tops prevents them from scratching each other. This way the bases of the machines are facing out, and these are much more robust than the lids.
deleted 5y ago
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NikolaNovak 5y ago
>>We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever. I agree with everything you say; note though that power-user oriented versions of HP & Dell laptops do come with the nub, or at least they did until recently (I've used both a Dell & HP with a nub as recently a ~18 months ago; it's possible in the ever-growing Applefication of the world [shudder], they've been discontinued). I think even some Toshibas have it - generally it'd be in whatever the brands consider their "Road-warrior" models :-> . You see a LOT more of them used on the airplanes of business corridors (e.g. Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal) than anywhere else :).

murermader 5y ago

Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? I think it is literally impossible to exit the program without a mouse, after you did something that requires saving.

capableweb 5y ago
> Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? Lately I've been thinking of finally upgrading Windows 11 since they keep pushing untimely prompts to do so more and more frequently, but reading this makes me glad I've hold off. If they still have major bugs like that, I'll wait another year or two before considering it again.

ihateolives 5y ago

> The TrackPoint may be something like this. Those of us who insist on it may be small in number. But if it is ever removed, then the one reason why we will only buy ThinkPads is gone. We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever. You could buy Dell or HP with trackpoint already years ago. Not sure the current state, but trackpoint is not ThinkPad exclusive feature.

tommiegannert 5y ago

> This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" No, it was a good-faith question of who finds it useful (for what type of work) these days. I think it's a fair question since every other manufacturer has settled on trackpads. As context, I added that I, personally, find it ruins my screen on an otherwise good laptop. Why the rant about keyboard shortcuts? The only answer you gave to my question was essentially, "over my dead body." No explanation that would help me understand you.

Stratoscope 5y ago
You are right, my rant about keyboard shortcuts was not really related to your question and did not answer it. So with apologies for my rather tangential analogy, let me explain how I got there. I recently read a ThinkPad review where the author said something like "Why does Lenovo insist in keeping this stupid red nubbin when nobody uses it?" In other words, "I don't use it, so I can't imagine that anyone else would." I misinterpreted your question as being in that same vein. Others have given some more direct answers, but let me add mine. As a touch typist, the TrackPoint is the only pointing device that is directly available with my fingers on the home row. With a touchpad, and especially with a mouse, you have to be in "typing mode" or "pointing and clicking mode". You can't intermix the two modes seamlessly, as you can with the TrackPoint. Another advantage is the presence of physical mouse buttons. Some other laptops do have these, but they seem to have fallen out of favor to allow a bigger touchpad. The physical buttons let you position the mouse pointer and then click without any chance of the pointer drifting a few pixels while you click. I also really appreciate your followup question, "What should I have done differently to make it appear as a true effort to understand?" My suggestion there would perhaps be along these lines: "I don't use the TrackPoint and in fact I removed the cap because it was leaving marks on my screen. But I'm curious to hear from those who use it. What do you like about it?" In any case, thank you for stimulating an interesting discussion! p.s. Regarding the screen, I think some of the older ThinkPads may have been more susceptible to this. I also wonder if the screen marking may be due to putting the ThinkPad in a backpack where other objects put pressure in the middle of the lid. I generally carry two ThinkPads in my backpack, my personal and work machines, and I pack them with the tops facing each other and a cotton dishtowel in between. I need a towel anyway to clean the screens and my eyeglasses, and putting the towel between the two tops prevents them from scratching each other. This way the bases of the machines are facing out, and these are much more robust than the lids.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

NikolaNovak 5y ago

>>We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever. I agree with everything you say; note though that power-user oriented versions of HP & Dell laptops do come with the nub, or at least they did until recently (I've used both a Dell & HP with a nub as recently a ~18 months ago; it's possible in the ever-growing Applefication of the world [shudder], they've been discontinued). I think even some Toshibas have it - generally it'd be in whatever the brands consider their "Road-warrior" models :-> . You see a LOT more of them used on the airplanes of business corridors (e.g. Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal) than anywhere else :).