4 ms·

> Similarly to the Socratic principle, ancient counterpart of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I don't remember ever hearing of "the Socratic principle" – what do yo

> Similarly to the Socratic principle, ancient counterpart of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I don't remember ever hearing of "the Socratic principle" – what do you mean by that? I had a quick google. There are only 12 pages of results for the phrase, i.e. it's not commonly used, and every hit for "the Socratic principle" I find seems different. The first four I found: "Virtue is knowledge", "follow the argument wherever it leads", "Wherever a man posts himself on his own conviction that this is best or on orders from his commander, there, I do believe, he should remain", and "Whenever we must choose between exclusive and exhaustive alternatives which we have come to perceive as, respectively, just and unjust or, more generally, as virtuous and vicious, that very perception of them should decide our choice. Further deliberation would be useless, for none of the non-moral goods we might hope to gain, taken singly or in combination, could compensate us for the loss of a moral good." If I had to say what I thought Socrates' main principle was, it might be "study humans and ethics, not nature/physics or maths". It doesn't sound like you meant any of those, but I'm not sure.

mdp2021 4y ago
Apologies for the unintended obscurity - I thought the meaning would be apparent from the context and that mention of the Dunning-Kruger as a posterior counterpart. I meant that "the more you investigate, the more you realize that the most solid knowledge you have is that of how little you know" (Socrates was said by the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, that he was the wisest man in Athens: Plato has he comment in the Apology that if there is one thing that makes him wise, it could be that he does not delude himself about his ignorance involving all the things he does not know). To such "Socratic principle on wisdom and knowledge", the wiser you get the more you see limits in your knowledge; to its counterpart the D-K, lack of experience has subjects underestimate their ignorance. People experienced in dealing with problems experience a large amount of unexpected obstacles, unexpected in the mental framework they brought: after some long while, difficulties and complications are expected preemptively, they are part of the picture one forms. Experience brings diffidence.
- yesenadam 4y ago
  > People experienced in dealing with problems experience a large amount of unexpected obstacles, unexpected in the mental framework they brought: after some long while, difficulties and complications are expected preemptively, they are part of the picture one forms. i.e. "Experienced people expect obstacles."
  - mdp2021 4y ago
    That of «obstacles» is not really the point. It is more that the experienced knows ignorance, one's and other's, so he will build distrust. The experienced knows that such naïve «mental framework» is very common: he will expect naivety.

mdp2021 4y ago

Apologies for the unintended obscurity - I thought the meaning would be apparent from the context and that mention of the Dunning-Kruger as a posterior counterpart. I meant that "the more you investigate, the more you realize that the most solid knowledge you have is that of how little you know" (Socrates was said by the Pythia, the Oracle of Delphi, that he was the wisest man in Athens: Plato has he comment in the Apology that if there is one thing that makes him wise, it could be that he does not delude himself about his ignorance involving all the things he does not know). To such "Socratic principle on wisdom and knowledge", the wiser you get the more you see limits in your knowledge; to its counterpart the D-K, lack of experience has subjects underestimate their ignorance. People experienced in dealing with problems experience a large amount of unexpected obstacles, unexpected in the mental framework they brought: after some long while, difficulties and complications are expected preemptively, they are part of the picture one forms. Experience brings diffidence.

yesenadam 4y ago
> People experienced in dealing with problems experience a large amount of unexpected obstacles, unexpected in the mental framework they brought: after some long while, difficulties and complications are expected preemptively, they are part of the picture one forms. i.e. "Experienced people expect obstacles."
- mdp2021 4y ago
  That of «obstacles» is not really the point. It is more that the experienced knows ignorance, one's and other's, so he will build distrust. The experienced knows that such naïve «mental framework» is very common: he will expect naivety.