7 ms·

> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Who's still using t

> Lenovo is famous for their TrackPoint (that little red thing on the keyboard), but I am not sure if I’ll take the time to learn using it. Who's still using this? I removed the red rubber because it was leaving residue on my screen.

tluyben2 4y ago
Me; I do not like trackpads; take up space and are not as efficient for me.
raegis 4y ago
I use it. Go to any Thinkpad enthusiast website and you would think the opposite. There are different types of trackpoints. The one I use is flush with the keys.
Aldipower 4y ago
In an industrial environment with dust, rough hands or maybe gloves on, this TrackPoint is very useful.
feanaro 4y ago
I refuse to buy a laptop without a trackpoint (which in practice means ThinkPads only).
pimeys 4y ago
It is the only thing that prevents me of getting any other laptops. Three mouse buttons and the trackpoint right next to the keyboard is the perfect way of using a laptop for me.
rxhernandez 4y ago
Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. And yes, I have a MacBook M1 (I didn't realize how poor the support was for Linux by the time the return window closed).
- mateuszf 4y ago
  I'm curious - do you really consider trackpoint better than apple touchpads?
  - pimeys 4y ago
    Yes. You can keep your fingers in the hjkl and still use the mouse without moving your hands.
  - NikolaNovak 4y ago
    Yes. With some important asterisks depending on person, usage and preferences :). Let's say it's far better FOR ME :->. I really like sibling comment's comparison with Keyboard shortcuts. Keyboard shortcuts don't make mouse or touch screen wrong or bad; some of us just prefer them and find them more efficient and effective. Using trackpad disrupts my flow whereas trackpoint is embedded on the home row. Further, I am much faster and more precise on trackpoint. I have never on any machine achieved easy effortless pixel-perfect precision on a trackpad, and have never found a way to quickly in a single motion repeatedly reach the extreme buttons/locations I want to. Now, I'm a trackpad newbie, but watching other trackpad proponents use their laptop has only confirmed my feeling. It looks easy but slow. This is not to say there aren't people out there who use trackpad quickly and efficiently; I very much assume there are, plenty! I just have not witnessed them. My feeling therefore, possibly incorrect, is that trackpad and trackpoint fulfill different purposes: Trackpoint is a high-learning curve, high-skill ceiling option that is ultimately more efficient for some. Trackpad has FAR lower learning curve and is much easier to start using, and is right choice for majority of casual users or those who don't prioritize input efficiency - but it feels like it plateaus earlier, or at least those in my group of family / friends / co-workers plateau with it far sooner.
- randalluk 4y ago
  > Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. I used to love the track point - it felt so efficient to have my pointing device right on the home row of the keyboard. Eventually I realised it was the cause of some pretty bad RSI (or something) in my index finger. Now I have to remove the plastic cap to stop myself from using it.
viraptor 4y ago
I love the nipple. I'll take it over any touchpad and for some weird reason I end up faster with it when aiming for small elements, even though it's completely counterintuitive.
cseleborg 4y ago
I sorely miss it since switching from ThinkPad to MS Surface a few years ago. I almost always use a mouse, even on the go, as TrackPads just don't work for me, the need to keep my fingers raised produces discomfort quite quickly. The TrackPoint is one of the reasons I'm considering a ThinkPad again.
reirob 4y ago
I'm using it since +20 years and many ThinkPads (had one Dell with a trackpoint in the early 2000s) - it's the thing why I'm staying with ThinkPads. If you are touch-typing, working on the go, in rough environment, then there is nothing better. Last 3 and half years I had X1E Gen1, was the worst ThinkPad experience of all the ThinkPads that I ever had (extremely hot, bad Linux support, loud, worst ever battery life, mirror display) - and the 1st ThinkPad in 20+ years that just stopped working after 3.5 years. Now I have the P1 Gen4, without Nvidia, the QXGA resolution and matte screen - and I love it. Was afraid because the key travel, got less, but I actually have to say that I prefer it compared to the previous ThinkPad, and it's less noisy when typing. However I have to say that none of the ThinkPad trackpoints match the easiness and the precision of the Tex Shinobi external keyboard - it's just delightful how it feels, though, typing on it is very loud.
Stratoscope 4y ago
This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F and then A when they want to do a Save As... Right? Sure, it worked for the last 30 years. But come on, who ever would type Alt+F and A? It has to be less than 1% of all the Windows users out there. And our telemetry proves it! If you have a billion Windows users, and you rewrite Paint - as Microsoft did in Windows 11 - so it no longer knows the keyboard shortcuts that 1% of your users rely on, no big deal. You've only inconvenienced ten million of your users. Or you hit Alt+F4 on Paint and you have an unsaved image. There is a nice dialog that asks "Do you want to save your work?" And there is a really common case where you were just using Paint as a scratchpad and you would like to type Alt+N here to say "no worries, I was just fooling around." This dialog used to read "Yes | No | Cancel". And Alt+N let you say "No". In later days, the dialog changed to "Yes | Don't save | Cancel". But with a clever trick, Microsoft made the "n" in "Don't save" the shortcut key. So even with the updated and much more clear wording, your Alt+N still worked! Until Windows 11, where this code was all rewritten by people who never knew that anyone ever used these keyboard shortcuts. The TrackPoint may be something like this. Those of us who insist on it may be small in number. But if it is ever removed, then the one reason why we will only buy ThinkPads is gone. We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever.
- murermader 4y ago
  Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? I think it is literally impossible to exit the program without a mouse, after you did something that requires saving.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? Lately I've been thinking of finally upgrading Windows 11 since they keep pushing untimely prompts to do so more and more frequently, but reading this makes me glad I've hold off. If they still have major bugs like that, I'll wait another year or two before considering it again.
go_elmo 4y ago
Dont have to lift hands from keyboard. Great for the 0.5% of cases where keyboard only isnt enough for navigation with i3 etc
Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago
It's the reason I'm locked into ThinkPads and never buy other laptops, even if I might prefer them in other respects. It's immensely better (for me) than a trackpad. Faster, less tiring and more precise. To the point that for most task, I won't ever bother to take the mouse out of the bag.
- tommiegannert 4y ago
  > tiring Ah, thanks. I have the opposite reaction. It's too stiff, so my finger tip gets tired after a while. The friction against the pad is also tiring, but not as badly.
eemil 4y ago
I use it. It lets me keep my hands on the home row, which is great when I need to alternate between clicking and typing. And the pointing stick is great ergonomically, if you're using your laptop in any kind of mobile setting. You don't have to contort your hands to reach the touchpad, which can be difficult if your laptop is, you know, on your lap.
pmontra 4y ago
Selection bias: Lenovo is selling some (I bet a fair one) percentage of laptops precisely because they have the trackpoint. Remove it and lose even only one million customers forever? Why?
motiejus 4y ago
I am. I use it so much that I buy lenovo external keyboards for my workstation. Much easier to move the cursor "half a screen" while typing without moving hands off the keyboard.
NikolaNovak 4y ago
FWIW: I will literally not use a laptop without it. It does have a learning curve, but after you've gone through it, watching people use trackpads is pa-a-ainful. Like being a touch typist and watching somebody finger peck while staring at the keyboard at 20WPM - you just want to take over and get it done :D . Yes, trackpad has a minimal learning curve, but it plateaus so early. Especially in small format computers - it actually really bothers me that we are sacrificing keyboard quality, size, and standardized layout, for this gigantic yet inefficient ever-growing trackpad (and thus killing the home/end/pgup/pgdwn section, arrows, functional row, etc), when the nub has minimal foot print and would allow full keyboard and practical design even on smallest laptops. But it's all about different approaches. If able, I will always prefer an ergonomic keyboard, ergonomic mouse, large mousepad, and a couple of large monitors when working. My wife on the other hand will happily use 13" laptop with trackpad in awful position on the couch for hours! We have different priorities and preferences and will never persuade each other :->

tluyben2 4y ago

Me; I do not like trackpads; take up space and are not as efficient for me.

raegis 4y ago

I use it. Go to any Thinkpad enthusiast website and you would think the opposite. There are different types of trackpoints. The one I use is flush with the keys.

Aldipower 4y ago

In an industrial environment with dust, rough hands or maybe gloves on, this TrackPoint is very useful.

feanaro 4y ago

I refuse to buy a laptop without a trackpoint (which in practice means ThinkPads only).

pimeys 4y ago

It is the only thing that prevents me of getting any other laptops. Three mouse buttons and the trackpoint right next to the keyboard is the perfect way of using a laptop for me.

rxhernandez 4y ago

Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. And yes, I have a MacBook M1 (I didn't realize how poor the support was for Linux by the time the return window closed).

mateuszf 4y ago
I'm curious - do you really consider trackpoint better than apple touchpads?
- pimeys 4y ago
  Yes. You can keep your fingers in the hjkl and still use the mouse without moving your hands.
- NikolaNovak 4y ago
  Yes. With some important asterisks depending on person, usage and preferences :). Let's say it's far better FOR ME :->. I really like sibling comment's comparison with Keyboard shortcuts. Keyboard shortcuts don't make mouse or touch screen wrong or bad; some of us just prefer them and find them more efficient and effective. Using trackpad disrupts my flow whereas trackpoint is embedded on the home row. Further, I am much faster and more precise on trackpoint. I have never on any machine achieved easy effortless pixel-perfect precision on a trackpad, and have never found a way to quickly in a single motion repeatedly reach the extreme buttons/locations I want to. Now, I'm a trackpad newbie, but watching other trackpad proponents use their laptop has only confirmed my feeling. It looks easy but slow. This is not to say there aren't people out there who use trackpad quickly and efficiently; I very much assume there are, plenty! I just have not witnessed them. My feeling therefore, possibly incorrect, is that trackpad and trackpoint fulfill different purposes: Trackpoint is a high-learning curve, high-skill ceiling option that is ultimately more efficient for some. Trackpad has FAR lower learning curve and is much easier to start using, and is right choice for majority of casual users or those who don't prioritize input efficiency - but it feels like it plateaus earlier, or at least those in my group of family / friends / co-workers plateau with it far sooner.
randalluk 4y ago
> Me; it's far superior to anything outside of a mouse. I used to love the track point - it felt so efficient to have my pointing device right on the home row of the keyboard. Eventually I realised it was the cause of some pretty bad RSI (or something) in my index finger. Now I have to remove the plastic cap to stop myself from using it.

viraptor 4y ago

I love the nipple. I'll take it over any touchpad and for some weird reason I end up faster with it when aiming for small elements, even though it's completely counterintuitive.

cseleborg 4y ago

I sorely miss it since switching from ThinkPad to MS Surface a few years ago. I almost always use a mouse, even on the go, as TrackPads just don't work for me, the need to keep my fingers raised produces discomfort quite quickly. The TrackPoint is one of the reasons I'm considering a ThinkPad again.

reirob 4y ago

I'm using it since +20 years and many ThinkPads (had one Dell with a trackpoint in the early 2000s) - it's the thing why I'm staying with ThinkPads. If you are touch-typing, working on the go, in rough environment, then there is nothing better. Last 3 and half years I had X1E Gen1, was the worst ThinkPad experience of all the ThinkPads that I ever had (extremely hot, bad Linux support, loud, worst ever battery life, mirror display) - and the 1st ThinkPad in 20+ years that just stopped working after 3.5 years. Now I have the P1 Gen4, without Nvidia, the QXGA resolution and matte screen - and I love it. Was afraid because the key travel, got less, but I actually have to say that I prefer it compared to the previous ThinkPad, and it's less noisy when typing. However I have to say that none of the ThinkPad trackpoints match the easiness and the precision of the Tex Shinobi external keyboard - it's just delightful how it feels, though, typing on it is very loud.

Stratoscope 4y ago

This is a bit like asking "who still uses keyboard shortcuts?" After all, there is really no reason that anyone using Paint in Windows would ever type Alt+F and then A when they want to do a Save As... Right? Sure, it worked for the last 30 years. But come on, who ever would type Alt+F and A? It has to be less than 1% of all the Windows users out there. And our telemetry proves it! If you have a billion Windows users, and you rewrite Paint - as Microsoft did in Windows 11 - so it no longer knows the keyboard shortcuts that 1% of your users rely on, no big deal. You've only inconvenienced ten million of your users. Or you hit Alt+F4 on Paint and you have an unsaved image. There is a nice dialog that asks "Do you want to save your work?" And there is a really common case where you were just using Paint as a scratchpad and you would like to type Alt+N here to say "no worries, I was just fooling around." This dialog used to read "Yes | No | Cancel". And Alt+N let you say "No". In later days, the dialog changed to "Yes | Don't save | Cancel". But with a clever trick, Microsoft made the "n" in "Don't save" the shortcut key. So even with the updated and much more clear wording, your Alt+N still worked! Until Windows 11, where this code was all rewritten by people who never knew that anyone ever used these keyboard shortcuts. The TrackPoint may be something like this. Those of us who insist on it may be small in number. But if it is ever removed, then the one reason why we will only buy ThinkPads is gone. We may as well get a Dell or an HP or a Mac M1 or whatever.

murermader 4y ago
Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? I think it is literally impossible to exit the program without a mouse, after you did something that requires saving.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > Thanks for pointing that out. The Windows 11 dialog does not take any keyboard shortucts. I can't even use Enter or Escape, or switch between the options using arrow keys. This has to be a bug, right. Right? Lately I've been thinking of finally upgrading Windows 11 since they keep pushing untimely prompts to do so more and more frequently, but reading this makes me glad I've hold off. If they still have major bugs like that, I'll wait another year or two before considering it again.

go_elmo 4y ago

Dont have to lift hands from keyboard. Great for the 0.5% of cases where keyboard only isnt enough for navigation with i3 etc

Al-Khwarizmi 4y ago

It's the reason I'm locked into ThinkPads and never buy other laptops, even if I might prefer them in other respects. It's immensely better (for me) than a trackpad. Faster, less tiring and more precise. To the point that for most task, I won't ever bother to take the mouse out of the bag.

tommiegannert 4y ago
> tiring Ah, thanks. I have the opposite reaction. It's too stiff, so my finger tip gets tired after a while. The friction against the pad is also tiring, but not as badly.

eemil 4y ago

I use it. It lets me keep my hands on the home row, which is great when I need to alternate between clicking and typing. And the pointing stick is great ergonomically, if you're using your laptop in any kind of mobile setting. You don't have to contort your hands to reach the touchpad, which can be difficult if your laptop is, you know, on your lap.

pmontra 4y ago

Selection bias: Lenovo is selling some (I bet a fair one) percentage of laptops precisely because they have the trackpoint. Remove it and lose even only one million customers forever? Why?

motiejus 4y ago

I am. I use it so much that I buy lenovo external keyboards for my workstation. Much easier to move the cursor "half a screen" while typing without moving hands off the keyboard.

NikolaNovak 4y ago

FWIW: I will literally not use a laptop without it. It does have a learning curve, but after you've gone through it, watching people use trackpads is pa-a-ainful. Like being a touch typist and watching somebody finger peck while staring at the keyboard at 20WPM - you just want to take over and get it done :D . Yes, trackpad has a minimal learning curve, but it plateaus so early. Especially in small format computers - it actually really bothers me that we are sacrificing keyboard quality, size, and standardized layout, for this gigantic yet inefficient ever-growing trackpad (and thus killing the home/end/pgup/pgdwn section, arrows, functional row, etc), when the nub has minimal foot print and would allow full keyboard and practical design even on smallest laptops. But it's all about different approaches. If able, I will always prefer an ergonomic keyboard, ergonomic mouse, large mousepad, and a couple of large monitors when working. My wife on the other hand will happily use 13" laptop with trackpad in awful position on the couch for hours! We have different priorities and preferences and will never persuade each other :->