7 ms·

I like 4-day weeks, but what I would like even more is a month consecutive vacation a year. (Which is just 20-23 days off, rather than the ~50 Fridays every yea

I like 4-day weeks, but what I would like even more is a month consecutive vacation a year. (Which is just 20-23 days off, rather than the ~50 Fridays every year.) This is pretty common places in Europe like France or Denmark (where you must take at least three weeks consecutive vacation.) Is this something any US companies are advertising?

likeabbas 4y ago
Not specifically but I’ve managed to find my way onto two teams at different companies where I’m allowed to do so. The first company had unlimited PTO, the second company has 21 PTO days that roll over so I saved up last year to use them this year! Today is the first day of my month long vacation in Italy on my new team
vkazanov 4y ago
At Bumble we have: - an unlimited PTO (you'd have to explain going beyond, say, 4 weeks, but otherwise working) - mandatory 2 payed weeks off (1 in December and 1 in Jun) - mostly remote using the "office-hub" model, only requiring presence when necessary - every 2 weeks there something we call a Focus Friday, when nobody can contact you and you are free to concentrate on things you want to work on. This covers all offices, i.e. Texas, UK, Spain. Pretty comfortable, I'd say. I don't feel I need more time to restore some energy.
- thomasahle 4y ago
  > mandatory 2 payed weeks off Mandatory PTO is the best. That way you don't have fomo, no pressure to work whole on vacation and no catching up to do when you're back. I'd like to work somewhere with more mandatory vacation.
- nightski 4y ago
  Clearly it's not unlimited. On the one hand if your co-worker takes 4 weeks off then you'll feel cheated if you take 2. On the other if you take 4 weeks off you have no way of knowing if that is frowned upon. This seems like more stress than it is worth.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - discordance 4y ago
    Unlimited without pay and no need to turn up when you get back from leave either.
- sakarisson 4y ago
  I'm glad that you're happy with the system, but I'm not satisfied with your comment. In my personal experience, people with "unlimited vacation" tend to take less overall vacation than I do, on a mandatory vacation time per year. > (you'd have to explain going beyond, say, 4 weeks, but otherwise working) Unless "I'd like to take a 5-week vacation" isn't enough explanation in itself, it clearly isn't working. An employee shouldn't have to justify _why_ they want to go on vacation.
  - xmprt 4y ago
    In my experience, the conversation goes like this: Me: I'd like to take a 5-week vacation Manager: Why? Me: I haven't taken a long vacation in about year. Manager: Sure thing. Approved. This is what happens and it's better than dealing with accrued PTO where I have to keep track of the days off. I'm sure companies are doing this because they've done the math and see that on average people take less time off with UTO. But if you have a good team and good managers then it isn't difficult to take time off. Additionally, in the accrued PTO case, if you end up taking 5 weeks straight with absolutely no justification and your manager isn't good then there's probably a chance at retaliation. In either case, it depends on your relation with your manager. I do agree that mandatory vacation is probably the best however, it's extremely rare in America which is where the unlimited vacation trend has started.
    - dx034 4y ago
      But do you get a reminder if you don't take holiday? In most of Europe, companies don't only have to offer a minimum of 4-5 weeks PTO per year, they also have to make sure employees take at least the majority of their vacation days.
  - xedrac 4y ago
    I dislike unlimited/untracked/open (whatever buzzword) PTO. I feel like I have to beg for time off, so I end up taking very little and burning out. Even when I'm sick, I feel like I have to justify why I cannot work. I guess it's better than the places that only give you two weeks vacation/sick leave. I'm having some serious Europe envy right now. They seem to take vacation time seriously.
- id 4y ago
  >you'd have to explain going beyond, say, 4 weeks This is less than the PTO mandated by law in many European countries. Hardly unlimited.
  - throw1230 4y ago
    Important to know Europe doesn't calculate time offs like the US does. In the US, if you take 4 weeks off, it's 20 days PTO. In Europe it's 28-30.
    - matthews2 4y ago
      Which countries do it like this? At least at where I've worked in the UK, only the days where you would've normally been at work are counted.
      - jamesrr39 4y ago
        In Sweden and Denmark as well, it would be calculated as 20 days assuming a standard Monday to Friday office hours job. I'm also curious to know where the parent poster got the 28-30 days calculation from.
      - tomduncalf 4y ago
        Agreed, I have never heard of this, I’m pretty sure it would not be legal in the UK
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      I’ve managed team members in many European countries; we only count days you’d otherwise work. (We do have one every 5 year sabbatical program that is “4 weeks, and if there was a company holiday in that stretch, you don’t get an extra day”, but otherwise, taking 4 M-F stretches is 4x5 = 20 days of PTO.
    - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
      Based on the downvotes and replies, I'd say this is not true.
    - 4y ago
- dx034 4y ago
  Can't really cover the UK, only offering 20 days PTO without explanation is illegal in the UK, the minimum is 28 days (not including bank holidays). And it's very restrictive compared to most European countries anyway. Seems crazy that this is competitive in the US. Then again, salaries are much higher in the US.
  - _puk 4y ago
    "in the UK, the minimum is 28 days (not including bank holidays)". I had to double check this as it doesn't match my experience. Yes, it is a minimum of 28 days, but that can include Bank Holidays (normally 6 days, though we have extra "Jubilee" Bank Holidays this year), so in practice it's 20 days plus Bank Holidays minimum. 0: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights
    - timthorn 4y ago
      It's normally 8 days of Bank Holiday in England - New Year's Day, Good Friday and Easter Monday, the two May holidays, the August one, then Christmas and Boxing days.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  In the UK the mandatory minimum is 20 days paid holiday (plus the ~8 public holidays per year). In Spain 22 days + public holidays. That's the minimum, many jobs give more, e.g. 28-32 days + public holidays. (On my last job in Britain it increased slowly, when I left I had 33 plus the public holidays.) It would be informative to see if the people in Britain and Spain take more holiday than those in Texas.
- kuschku 4y ago
  The legal minimum (!) in Germany is already 5 weeks of vacation. It’s clearly not unlimited if 4 weeks requires justification. In fact, this doesn’t really sound attractive at all. At my current employer I work 32h/week, get 6½ weeks off (+ bank holidays), am entirely remote, and every Wednesday is entirely free of meetings.
- School-Cotton 4y ago
  “Unlimited PTO” is a scam. If it’s truly unlimited why not take 52 weeks off per year?
  - bluedevil2k 4y ago
    Cause you’ll get PIP’ed because your production will be non-existent.
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    You're still expected to get a certain amount of work done.
zamadatix 4y ago
Anecdotally as someone in the US that used to do this I've never seen a place here specifically advertise "month consecutive vacation" but that doesn't mean I've found it hard to get either (for salaried positions at least). Overall I'd say in the US there is a LOT more appetite for "how I'd like to allocate my PTO" vs things like "how I'd like to divvy my working hours" at most places.
inglor 4y ago
At Microsoft Israel we have: - 23 days off every year for everyone. - 5 extra days off for COVID years (but doesn't accumulate between years) - 18 days of (paid) sick leave (also for family) - Lots of leaves for stuff like family sickness (1 month a year), bereavement (10 days), paternity (6 weeks), maternity (6 weeks) on top of the ones we get from the government (3.5 months parenting leave for example). - 2 times a year where taking a holiday only costs half called roughly "office shushing" where you take 2 days but are away 5. - Plenty of holidays etc, requirement to take at least of 5 days consecutive (so 10 days off with weekends) of vacation a year and it only accumulates up to one year's worth so you are required to use your PTO in practice. After a long time, you also get a sabbatical which is pretty crazy to me in a tech company. In practice you take few long vacations (e.g. 1 month off twice a year during the times of the hadmama where it "costs" half) and a bunch of short ones (long weekends). This isn't based on level and you don't have to be a principal engineer to get these benefits it's just market competition - SW1s fresh out of college get the same amount of vacation.
- nurettin 4y ago
  How do you get any work done?
  - brtkdotse 4y ago
    Well rested and unstressed people are more productive than people "being busy" for 50+ hours per week, 50 weeks per year.
- mzi 4y ago
  In Sweden we have - 25 days off every year for every one (5 days minimum can carry over). Most tech companies have 30 days off. - No extra days for COVID - Unlimited sick days - 240 days of parental leave (so per parent. Increase if you have more than one child (twins, triplets). Plus 10 days for the non-birthing parent to be together the first weeks. 96 days per parent can be saved beyond the 4th year. - 17 holidays but they are sometimes on weekends and thus give no extra days. The only day that gives you a spare day if it happens on a weekend is our "independance" day.

likeabbas 4y ago

Not specifically but I’ve managed to find my way onto two teams at different companies where I’m allowed to do so. The first company had unlimited PTO, the second company has 21 PTO days that roll over so I saved up last year to use them this year! Today is the first day of my month long vacation in Italy on my new team

vkazanov 4y ago

At Bumble we have: - an unlimited PTO (you'd have to explain going beyond, say, 4 weeks, but otherwise working) - mandatory 2 payed weeks off (1 in December and 1 in Jun) - mostly remote using the "office-hub" model, only requiring presence when necessary - every 2 weeks there something we call a Focus Friday, when nobody can contact you and you are free to concentrate on things you want to work on. This covers all offices, i.e. Texas, UK, Spain. Pretty comfortable, I'd say. I don't feel I need more time to restore some energy.

thomasahle 4y ago
> mandatory 2 payed weeks off Mandatory PTO is the best. That way you don't have fomo, no pressure to work whole on vacation and no catching up to do when you're back. I'd like to work somewhere with more mandatory vacation.
nightski 4y ago
Clearly it's not unlimited. On the one hand if your co-worker takes 4 weeks off then you'll feel cheated if you take 2. On the other if you take 4 weeks off you have no way of knowing if that is frowned upon. This seems like more stress than it is worth.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- discordance 4y ago
  Unlimited without pay and no need to turn up when you get back from leave either.
sakarisson 4y ago
I'm glad that you're happy with the system, but I'm not satisfied with your comment. In my personal experience, people with "unlimited vacation" tend to take less overall vacation than I do, on a mandatory vacation time per year. > (you'd have to explain going beyond, say, 4 weeks, but otherwise working) Unless "I'd like to take a 5-week vacation" isn't enough explanation in itself, it clearly isn't working. An employee shouldn't have to justify _why_ they want to go on vacation.
- xmprt 4y ago
  In my experience, the conversation goes like this: Me: I'd like to take a 5-week vacation Manager: Why? Me: I haven't taken a long vacation in about year. Manager: Sure thing. Approved. This is what happens and it's better than dealing with accrued PTO where I have to keep track of the days off. I'm sure companies are doing this because they've done the math and see that on average people take less time off with UTO. But if you have a good team and good managers then it isn't difficult to take time off. Additionally, in the accrued PTO case, if you end up taking 5 weeks straight with absolutely no justification and your manager isn't good then there's probably a chance at retaliation. In either case, it depends on your relation with your manager. I do agree that mandatory vacation is probably the best however, it's extremely rare in America which is where the unlimited vacation trend has started.
  - dx034 4y ago
    But do you get a reminder if you don't take holiday? In most of Europe, companies don't only have to offer a minimum of 4-5 weeks PTO per year, they also have to make sure employees take at least the majority of their vacation days.
- xedrac 4y ago
  I dislike unlimited/untracked/open (whatever buzzword) PTO. I feel like I have to beg for time off, so I end up taking very little and burning out. Even when I'm sick, I feel like I have to justify why I cannot work. I guess it's better than the places that only give you two weeks vacation/sick leave. I'm having some serious Europe envy right now. They seem to take vacation time seriously.
id 4y ago
>you'd have to explain going beyond, say, 4 weeks This is less than the PTO mandated by law in many European countries. Hardly unlimited.
- throw1230 4y ago
  Important to know Europe doesn't calculate time offs like the US does. In the US, if you take 4 weeks off, it's 20 days PTO. In Europe it's 28-30.
  - matthews2 4y ago
    Which countries do it like this? At least at where I've worked in the UK, only the days where you would've normally been at work are counted.
    - jamesrr39 4y ago
      In Sweden and Denmark as well, it would be calculated as 20 days assuming a standard Monday to Friday office hours job. I'm also curious to know where the parent poster got the 28-30 days calculation from.
    - tomduncalf 4y ago
      Agreed, I have never heard of this, I’m pretty sure it would not be legal in the UK
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    I’ve managed team members in many European countries; we only count days you’d otherwise work. (We do have one every 5 year sabbatical program that is “4 weeks, and if there was a company holiday in that stretch, you don’t get an extra day”, but otherwise, taking 4 M-F stretches is 4x5 = 20 days of PTO.
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    Based on the downvotes and replies, I'd say this is not true.
  - 4y ago
dx034 4y ago
Can't really cover the UK, only offering 20 days PTO without explanation is illegal in the UK, the minimum is 28 days (not including bank holidays). And it's very restrictive compared to most European countries anyway. Seems crazy that this is competitive in the US. Then again, salaries are much higher in the US.
- _puk 4y ago
  "in the UK, the minimum is 28 days (not including bank holidays)". I had to double check this as it doesn't match my experience. Yes, it is a minimum of 28 days, but that can include Bank Holidays (normally 6 days, though we have extra "Jubilee" Bank Holidays this year), so in practice it's 20 days plus Bank Holidays minimum. 0: https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights
  - timthorn 4y ago
    It's normally 8 days of Bank Holiday in England - New Year's Day, Good Friday and Easter Monday, the two May holidays, the August one, then Christmas and Boxing days.
Symbiote 4y ago
In the UK the mandatory minimum is 20 days paid holiday (plus the ~8 public holidays per year). In Spain 22 days + public holidays. That's the minimum, many jobs give more, e.g. 28-32 days + public holidays. (On my last job in Britain it increased slowly, when I left I had 33 plus the public holidays.) It would be informative to see if the people in Britain and Spain take more holiday than those in Texas.
kuschku 4y ago
The legal minimum (!) in Germany is already 5 weeks of vacation. It’s clearly not unlimited if 4 weeks requires justification. In fact, this doesn’t really sound attractive at all. At my current employer I work 32h/week, get 6½ weeks off (+ bank holidays), am entirely remote, and every Wednesday is entirely free of meetings.
School-Cotton 4y ago
“Unlimited PTO” is a scam. If it’s truly unlimited why not take 52 weeks off per year?
- bluedevil2k 4y ago
  Cause you’ll get PIP’ed because your production will be non-existent.
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  You're still expected to get a certain amount of work done.

zamadatix 4y ago

Anecdotally as someone in the US that used to do this I've never seen a place here specifically advertise "month consecutive vacation" but that doesn't mean I've found it hard to get either (for salaried positions at least). Overall I'd say in the US there is a LOT more appetite for "how I'd like to allocate my PTO" vs things like "how I'd like to divvy my working hours" at most places.

inglor 4y ago

At Microsoft Israel we have: - 23 days off every year for everyone. - 5 extra days off for COVID years (but doesn't accumulate between years) - 18 days of (paid) sick leave (also for family) - Lots of leaves for stuff like family sickness (1 month a year), bereavement (10 days), paternity (6 weeks), maternity (6 weeks) on top of the ones we get from the government (3.5 months parenting leave for example). - 2 times a year where taking a holiday only costs half called roughly "office shushing" where you take 2 days but are away 5. - Plenty of holidays etc, requirement to take at least of 5 days consecutive (so 10 days off with weekends) of vacation a year and it only accumulates up to one year's worth so you are required to use your PTO in practice. After a long time, you also get a sabbatical which is pretty crazy to me in a tech company. In practice you take few long vacations (e.g. 1 month off twice a year during the times of the hadmama where it "costs" half) and a bunch of short ones (long weekends). This isn't based on level and you don't have to be a principal engineer to get these benefits it's just market competition - SW1s fresh out of college get the same amount of vacation.

nurettin 4y ago
How do you get any work done?
- brtkdotse 4y ago
  Well rested and unstressed people are more productive than people "being busy" for 50+ hours per week, 50 weeks per year.
mzi 4y ago
In Sweden we have - 25 days off every year for every one (5 days minimum can carry over). Most tech companies have 30 days off. - No extra days for COVID - Unlimited sick days - 240 days of parental leave (so per parent. Increase if you have more than one child (twins, triplets). Plus 10 days for the non-birthing parent to be together the first weeks. 96 days per parent can be saved beyond the 4th year. - 17 holidays but they are sometimes on weekends and thus give no extra days. The only day that gives you a spare day if it happens on a weekend is our "independance" day.