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Thanks for sharing, I really appreciated the last half. Good thoughts generally One downside I think after reading here is that there is some wacko in the first

Thanks for sharing, I really appreciated the last half. Good thoughts generally One downside I think after reading here is that there is some wacko in the first half of the post that I feel compelled to comment on a few things. Hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD proper. Stimulants can also make you feel hyperfocused. However, the general reported effects of stimulants are a feeling of "normalcy", not hyperfocus as a result of stimulants. Many people taking stimulants are still symptomatic, albeit managed, meditation long term is generally an excruciatingly (if excruciating) adjunct to stimulants. Second, Adderall often gives the feeling of superfocus and speed to neurotypical individuals but has been statistically shown to give little gain in practice in terms of certain raw metrics. A very strong dopaminergic placebo, as it were. I'd suspect the reason for it being considered effective is that it keeps you glued on tasks for significantly longer than otherwise . It's not propaganda, it's science, you can look at the studies yourself, it's pretty drastic. However there may be another layer on top of that that that could be propagandizing what is otherwise a valid scientific distinction. Much agreed in the last half, I've seen a lot of subclinical dissociative like disorders fall into ADHD, or DPDR, when really there is probably a core condition and several other families lumped in. Such is always the curse of dimensionality reduction. A more root-cause preserving descriptive language set that doesn't rely on the anchor of billing codes would open up the scientific fields a lot. Language determines nomenclature, which determines assumed avenues of exploration. A dimension reduced model of mental health along symptomatic axes will almost always destroy symptom and condition "root cause" linkage. Additionally like you noted anxiety and depression are more symptoms of traumatic disorders and less actual disorders in and of themselves. My pet theory is that's one reason why "depression" is so hard to cure, imagine trying to generically cure "fever" instead of making vaccines, etc. Ramble over! I think (especially later on) we think pretty similarly!

opportune 4y ago
According to the DSM, the way you get identified as having ADHD is by reporting persistent executive function (esp. for inattentive type) and/or impulsivity-hyperactivity problems [0]. Most people grow out of the H-type symptoms as they mature but I is more persistent and suspected to be less diagnosed[1]. What I mean is that anybody who thinks they have executive function problems likely does. Yeah, hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD proper. But if you're unmedicated, for most people it's not something you can control - if you could, it wouldn't really be a disorder at all. I was responding specifically to the following paragraph: "Until I got to college I didn't understand how people could spend hours a day “studying”. When I got there I found out. When my first-year hallmates were “studying” they were looking out the window, playing with their pencils, talking to their roommates, all sorts of stuff that wasn't studying. When I needed to study I would hide somewhere and study. I think the ability to focus on just one thing for a few hours at a time is a great gift that ADD has given me." That's pretty much exactly what it feels like to take adderall. For me taking stimulants like adderall allows me to force focus even on stuff I don't care much about/even when I don't normally feel like it. And yes, this is exactly the way people without ADHD feel too (as you mention - even if you don't have ADHD, you can still focus on-task for a long time and feel smart as fuck). What you mention about dopaminergic stimulants only actually benefitting people with ADHD is likely an oversimplification. To meet the DSM criteria (and thus, in most clinical settings, to get diagnosed with ADHD-I) you just need persistent problems focusing. Hence my overall point that anybody that thinks they have trouble focusing should be able to just take adderall. ADHD is a spectrum and not a binary condition anyway. You can meet 4 DSM criteria and remain untreated, or meet 5 DSM criteria and take 60mg of amphetamine every day. The "propaganda" is that ADHD is this cut-and-dry binary condition where people with ADHD who take dopaminergic stimulants totally don't get high (go on /r/ADHD and read any post about someone taking medicine for the first time), hyperfocus/tunnel-vision (ie "bad hyperfocus"), chatty, irritiable, or have trouble sleeping. And conversely that people without ADHD who take dopaminergic stimulants will only masturbate, stay up late, dance at a club, or take apart their neighbor's lawnmower. When in reality this is mostly set, setting, conditioning, dose, habits, tolerance, dose metering, and expectations. And as a consequence of this propaganda, mostly because some people benefit a lot from taking dopaminergic stimulants but they also get you high and our society moralizes against that, plenty of people who don't meet the formal requirements for ADHD under the DSM, are subclinical or at the threshold of being clinical, can't afford a $100 copay every 2-4 weeks, or don't have the executive function to seek treatment remain untreated. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441936/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441936/

opportune 4y ago

According to the DSM, the way you get identified as having ADHD is by reporting persistent executive function (esp. for inattentive type) and/or impulsivity-hyperactivity problems [0]. Most people grow out of the H-type symptoms as they mature but I is more persistent and suspected to be less diagnosed[1]. What I mean is that anybody who thinks they have executive function problems likely does. Yeah, hyperfocus is a symptom of ADHD proper. But if you're unmedicated, for most people it's not something you can control - if you could, it wouldn't really be a disorder at all. I was responding specifically to the following paragraph: "Until I got to college I didn't understand how people could spend hours a day “studying”. When I got there I found out. When my first-year hallmates were “studying” they were looking out the window, playing with their pencils, talking to their roommates, all sorts of stuff that wasn't studying. When I needed to study I would hide somewhere and study. I think the ability to focus on just one thing for a few hours at a time is a great gift that ADD has given me." That's pretty much exactly what it feels like to take adderall. For me taking stimulants like adderall allows me to force focus even on stuff I don't care much about/even when I don't normally feel like it. And yes, this is exactly the way people without ADHD feel too (as you mention - even if you don't have ADHD, you can still focus on-task for a long time and feel smart as fuck). What you mention about dopaminergic stimulants only actually benefitting people with ADHD is likely an oversimplification. To meet the DSM criteria (and thus, in most clinical settings, to get diagnosed with ADHD-I) you just need persistent problems focusing. Hence my overall point that anybody that thinks they have trouble focusing should be able to just take adderall. ADHD is a spectrum and not a binary condition anyway. You can meet 4 DSM criteria and remain untreated, or meet 5 DSM criteria and take 60mg of amphetamine every day. The "propaganda" is that ADHD is this cut-and-dry binary condition where people with ADHD who take dopaminergic stimulants totally don't get high (go on /r/ADHD and read any post about someone taking medicine for the first time), hyperfocus/tunnel-vision (ie "bad hyperfocus"), chatty, irritiable, or have trouble sleeping. And conversely that people without ADHD who take dopaminergic stimulants will only masturbate, stay up late, dance at a club, or take apart their neighbor's lawnmower. When in reality this is mostly set, setting, conditioning, dose, habits, tolerance, dose metering, and expectations. And as a consequence of this propaganda, mostly because some people benefit a lot from taking dopaminergic stimulants but they also get you high and our society moralizes against that, plenty of people who don't meet the formal requirements for ADHD under the DSM, are subclinical or at the threshold of being clinical, can't afford a $100 copay every 2-4 weeks, or don't have the executive function to seek treatment remain untreated. [0] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441936/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3441936/