5 ms·

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important ac

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC website is overly broad. If you watch more technical talks [1] on ADHD they go into much more detail about what ADHD is exactly and why it affects almost everything very severely (it has a specific impact on executive function, which cuts across a lot of behavior). It's not just a wishy washy way of describing a category of dysfunction. [1] one example: Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...

faeriechangling 4y ago
If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spectrum as being disabled. I don't disagree the reason ADHD is considered so serious is cultural, but I find the culture to be incredibly condescending. For context, Russell A Barkley has been a paid consultant for a large number of pharmaceutical companies. He takes the position that ADHD is akin to a physical handicap and Ritalin is akin to a wheelchair, espousing how incredibly treatable of a disorder ADHD is. I don't agree with him very much because I've found the wheelchair to have a surprising amount of side effects while not being entirely effective. It feels more like a wheelchair I sit in to please others which ruins my own health. I have watched all of Russell Barkley's videos, and took him seriously enough to try everything he advised (Which is a LOT and I had to fight with psychs to try some of it), and it didn't work. Overall, I've mostly found myself to be pretty successful without using any sort of pharmacological treatment, and thus I'm not very attached to the "ADHD as a disorder" narrative and honestly feel like it's mostly done me a disservice. I also don't really feel it's something I have to accept due to it being scientific fact, as the sheer instability of ADHD diagnostic rates makes me sceptical scientists really have that firm of a grasp on the disorder, the differences in how people react to medication is pretty much completely unexplained by the current scientific theories, and the current scientific theories don't really explain that well why people without ADHD seem to have performance enhancing benefits from the drugs [2]. Which makes me wonder if we're "treating" ADHD, or if we're just letting people with ADHD dope while not allowing others to. To me, I suspect ADHD is an oversimplification of a more complex underlying reality, similar to IBS. I am much more keen on the "ADHD as as social construct" theory than I am on the "ADHD as a medical condition" theory. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/
- GavinMcG 4y ago
  What do you make of the research concluding that MRI can identify ADHD and distinguish among subtypes? https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226 https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226
- kanbara 4y ago
  i don't understand any of the points you are trying to make. it's great you can cope, either you don't have ADHD or you found ways to deal with it, but others are not you. people with ADHD struggle greatly and in a diversity of ways. a lot of people can adapt and integrate in work/social life/school way better on medication, and studies have shown the concentration and focus have increased measured cognitive benefits. people with ADHD have decreased function of neurotransmitter activity for dopamine and norepinephrine, which is proven. i don't doubt that the future of medication will be more controlled or targeted, as we understand more, but your idea that a lack of understanding means the drugs aren't appropriate, or that ADHD isn't a disorder is basically the same thing as saying "we don't know why people consciousness exists so why bother studying it". i personally had issues since i was not medicated for quite a number of years, mostly social and behavioural. i never was unintelligent, just had a lot of trouble focusing on tasks, prioritising, and having things in order. the pandemic and work-from-home were very hard for me, and taking stimulants again has literally opened my eyes and removed the fog of inaction. in just a few weeks i've seen huge improvements in my mood, happiness, work effectiveness, and focus, as well as thoughtfulness in conversation. not everyone responds well to drugs, and people can cope in various ways at varying times, but that doesn't mean we should throw decades of proven methods out the window and cancel the disorder entirely. if we were only hunter-gatherers maybe it wouldn't matter, but we quite literally live in a society that demands an exceeding amount of effort 100% of the time to be successful
  - faeriechangling 4y ago
    I don't want to end the use of stimulant medications. Nor do I want to suggest there are not correlations between certain groups of people and those who benefit from drugs. Nor do I want to deny people have differences in neurotransmitter levels. My issue is primarily with the jargon of calling such people "disordered". It's just such a crass and unnecessary subjective judgement. I reject the entire framing as an attack on my person and an insult to my face. Just because I can become hyper-smart by taking some drugs doesn't mean I'm disordered.

faeriechangling 4y ago

If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spectrum as being disabled. I don't disagree the reason ADHD is considered so serious is cultural, but I find the culture to be incredibly condescending. For context, Russell A Barkley has been a paid consultant for a large number of pharmaceutical companies. He takes the position that ADHD is akin to a physical handicap and Ritalin is akin to a wheelchair, espousing how incredibly treatable of a disorder ADHD is. I don't agree with him very much because I've found the wheelchair to have a surprising amount of side effects while not being entirely effective. It feels more like a wheelchair I sit in to please others which ruins my own health. I have watched all of Russell Barkley's videos, and took him seriously enough to try everything he advised (Which is a LOT and I had to fight with psychs to try some of it), and it didn't work. Overall, I've mostly found myself to be pretty successful without using any sort of pharmacological treatment, and thus I'm not very attached to the "ADHD as a disorder" narrative and honestly feel like it's mostly done me a disservice. I also don't really feel it's something I have to accept due to it being scientific fact, as the sheer instability of ADHD diagnostic rates makes me sceptical scientists really have that firm of a grasp on the disorder, the differences in how people react to medication is pretty much completely unexplained by the current scientific theories, and the current scientific theories don't really explain that well why people without ADHD seem to have performance enhancing benefits from the drugs [2]. Which makes me wonder if we're "treating" ADHD, or if we're just letting people with ADHD dope while not allowing others to. To me, I suspect ADHD is an oversimplification of a more complex underlying reality, similar to IBS. I am much more keen on the "ADHD as as social construct" theory than I am on the "ADHD as a medical condition" theory. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/

GavinMcG 4y ago
What do you make of the research concluding that MRI can identify ADHD and distinguish among subtypes? https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226 https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226
kanbara 4y ago
i don't understand any of the points you are trying to make. it's great you can cope, either you don't have ADHD or you found ways to deal with it, but others are not you. people with ADHD struggle greatly and in a diversity of ways. a lot of people can adapt and integrate in work/social life/school way better on medication, and studies have shown the concentration and focus have increased measured cognitive benefits. people with ADHD have decreased function of neurotransmitter activity for dopamine and norepinephrine, which is proven. i don't doubt that the future of medication will be more controlled or targeted, as we understand more, but your idea that a lack of understanding means the drugs aren't appropriate, or that ADHD isn't a disorder is basically the same thing as saying "we don't know why people consciousness exists so why bother studying it". i personally had issues since i was not medicated for quite a number of years, mostly social and behavioural. i never was unintelligent, just had a lot of trouble focusing on tasks, prioritising, and having things in order. the pandemic and work-from-home were very hard for me, and taking stimulants again has literally opened my eyes and removed the fog of inaction. in just a few weeks i've seen huge improvements in my mood, happiness, work effectiveness, and focus, as well as thoughtfulness in conversation. not everyone responds well to drugs, and people can cope in various ways at varying times, but that doesn't mean we should throw decades of proven methods out the window and cancel the disorder entirely. if we were only hunter-gatherers maybe it wouldn't matter, but we quite literally live in a society that demands an exceeding amount of effort 100% of the time to be successful
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  I don't want to end the use of stimulant medications. Nor do I want to suggest there are not correlations between certain groups of people and those who benefit from drugs. Nor do I want to deny people have differences in neurotransmitter levels. My issue is primarily with the jargon of calling such people "disordered". It's just such a crass and unnecessary subjective judgement. I reject the entire framing as an attack on my person and an insult to my face. Just because I can become hyper-smart by taking some drugs doesn't mean I'm disordered.