42 ms·

> You have an increased number of hoops to jump through if you want your computer to be programmable. > At first, it was Gatekeeper. Yeah, appeared in 10.8. Th

> You have an increased number of hoops to jump through if you want your computer to be programmable. > At first, it was Gatekeeper. Yeah, appeared in 10.8. Then notarization. Now, on M1 you need to sign your binaries ad-hoc or they won't run. You are confusing the local software development with the global software distribution. Anyone is free to install development tools, compilers and toolchains, compile and run anything locally on an OS X, just like on any other UNIX system, including Linux. Gatekeeper and the notarisation enforcement, which are a default but can be neutered, address a common use case of «my mom/little sister/grandfather/etc has downloaded and installed a seemingly useful app from a dodgy website that has excreted a ransomware that now demands a payment to give their data back, or leaked all of their contacts/personal data, or slowed their computing device 100 fold down». OS X does give lay users a way to turn checks off, including the system integrity protection, and shoot themselves in the foot if that is what they want. In fact, I would like to be able to selectively apply an even more, higher, restrictive security profile to any app, including to the ones available through Apple's own app store. Who can tell what potential spyware / trackware a 500+ Mb WhatsApp download from the official Apple app store contains within? WhatsApp desktop client is a mediocre (feature wise) messenger that is not even as feature rich as the 85Mb Telegram desktop download is. And I, for one, don't have the capacity to reverse engineer and manually inspect every single WhatsApp download/update for my own peace of mind and sanity, and I would also presume that very few people even from around here can. Anything coming out of FaceBook nowadays should be considered trackware and needs to be airgapped with the utmost diligence. Even the business/enterprise software is ridden with all sorts of trackers. Citrix Workspace client, for example, installs three "telemetry" helper processes that phone home non-stop. > Custom kernel extensions? No way. Yes way. They just have to be signed for same reasons as third party apps. See https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/sec8e454101b/web https://support.apple.com/en-au/guide/security/sec8e454101b/... for details. I was recently scrubbing the file system off some legacy components and noticed, with a lot bewilderment, what extra 'useful' USB drivers a 4G MiFi device I had purchased over a decade ago installed at the 1st connection attempt. I, for one, don't need those 'niceties' to sneakily creep into any of my file systems or lurk around. In fact, OS X has become more GNU Hurd since 10.15 like by pushing kernel extensions into the user space instead, which reduces chances of the kernel crashing due to a bug in a random extension. More kernel stability and security? I say yes to both, albeit your mileage may vary.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago
The thing is, you cannot harden it even more. If Apple Almighty hasn’t thought about your use case, it may as well not exist. There are two modes: either Apple nannying your systems like the overly attached yiddishe mame, or a mad ex breaking up with you, but also ripping out the locks from your doors before they go. Which is my freaking point exactly: you are being constantly reminded that despite having paid mad bucks for the hardware, Apple still owns it, snooping over your shoulder, giving you slaps on the hand if you dare „misuse” what they gave you.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  This is the point, yes. You can turn most of it off, but then even regular software upgrades break before you even do any modifications. Running an outdated system is not viable in this day and age. Part of the reasons for locking down is 'security' (though a lot of it is so easy to bypass through Apple's own backdoors that it seems to be more form than function). Which makes some sense from the user's point of view. Part of the reasons is DRM for Apple's services. Apple TV, Music, App store, iOS apps. I don't care about that but there is not much I can do about it on their hardware. Soon we'll have a new category Apple will want to lock down the system for: the CSAM detection. Of course Apple will be hell-bent on preventing people trying to tamper with that. It will come with its own host of protections, which I bet will even be active when SIP is off. Right now there are already a bunch of folders which the root user can't even read. Try running a "find / 1>/dev/null" as root and you'll get a nice list of folders Apple considers too sensitive for the user even to look at. The problem is not security. The problem is Apple enforces security without the user being able to override their choices. There is no way to make modifications to system files and "bless" them so it will still boot after the next update. You have to do it every time. There's no UI for such features at all. Apple forgets that I'm the owner and admin of my system and doesn't give me the keys to manage it. It's fine for their new targeted audience which is mainstream users with a large disposable income. It's not great for power users with a unix background like myself. I lament that macOS has moved away from supporting my usecase because I did enjoy it for many years. But now I'm happier with FreeBSD with KDE. I really enjoy being able to trace a problem right down to its cause again. I love all the customisation options again.

WesolyKubeczek 5y ago

The thing is, you cannot harden it even more. If Apple Almighty hasn’t thought about your use case, it may as well not exist. There are two modes: either Apple nannying your systems like the overly attached yiddishe mame, or a mad ex breaking up with you, but also ripping out the locks from your doors before they go. Which is my freaking point exactly: you are being constantly reminded that despite having paid mad bucks for the hardware, Apple still owns it, snooping over your shoulder, giving you slaps on the hand if you dare „misuse” what they gave you.

GekkePrutser 5y ago
This is the point, yes. You can turn most of it off, but then even regular software upgrades break before you even do any modifications. Running an outdated system is not viable in this day and age. Part of the reasons for locking down is 'security' (though a lot of it is so easy to bypass through Apple's own backdoors that it seems to be more form than function). Which makes some sense from the user's point of view. Part of the reasons is DRM for Apple's services. Apple TV, Music, App store, iOS apps. I don't care about that but there is not much I can do about it on their hardware. Soon we'll have a new category Apple will want to lock down the system for: the CSAM detection. Of course Apple will be hell-bent on preventing people trying to tamper with that. It will come with its own host of protections, which I bet will even be active when SIP is off. Right now there are already a bunch of folders which the root user can't even read. Try running a "find / 1>/dev/null" as root and you'll get a nice list of folders Apple considers too sensitive for the user even to look at. The problem is not security. The problem is Apple enforces security without the user being able to override their choices. There is no way to make modifications to system files and "bless" them so it will still boot after the next update. You have to do it every time. There's no UI for such features at all. Apple forgets that I'm the owner and admin of my system and doesn't give me the keys to manage it. It's fine for their new targeted audience which is mainstream users with a large disposable income. It's not great for power users with a unix background like myself. I lament that macOS has moved away from supporting my usecase because I did enjoy it for many years. But now I'm happier with FreeBSD with KDE. I really enjoy being able to trace a problem right down to its cause again. I love all the customisation options again.