3 ms·

Well, the thing is, if you ever do student interviews you'll realize many people in CS programs appear not to be getting that much from the classes either.

ThrowawayR2 5y ago
That's a problem with the students, not the CS program. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Maybe so, but if the argument against entertaining hiring boot camp grads is "many of them aren't good," then one must consider that the argument applies equally well to the other place most people try to source junior devs.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- ByteJockey 5y ago
  I think the implied problem is that the CS programs are passing these people. Someone signing up for a class and not learning anything is a problem. Someone passing a class and not learning anything is a big problem for the signaling power of that degree.
formerkrogemp 5y ago
My CS minor program didn't cover GIT.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  A CS course might cover the architecture of git, or the technical underpinnings but probably shouldn't teach you how to do the basics. In my program this sort of skill was expected to be learned on your own, or maybe a single optional tutorial session with the TA
  - the-smug-one 5y ago
    My uni has an on-prem installation of Github and this is where you upload and collaborate on your solutions. This isn't course specific, this is just what you do.
- garren 5y ago
  It’s odd to me that you’d expect them to. The CS program I was in used github for collaboration on a couple projects, but nothing really covering git tooling. All my classmates were either already familiar with it, or more than capable of figuring it out with a search or two. I’m guessing your program covered material that required a little more effort than a google search to build basic competency in?
  - emteycz 5y ago
    How do you expect people to collaborate if they can't git? Git is not that easy to grok, not even for Ph.d. students who successfuly completed some very complex scientific research (I am trying to teach Git a few of them so it's very visible to me). Making it the only way to send in homework motivates people to learn the absolute basics (I haven't seen anyone learn branching like this), but also pisses them off and a lot of times they don't want to use Git at all after that experience.
    - formerkrogemp 5y ago
      > All my classmates were either already familiar with it, or more than capable of figuring it out with a search or two. I’m guessing your program covered material that required a little more effort than a google search to build basic competency in? I did come across this charitable expectation in my CS coursework where you were given tools and expected already to know or to learn on your own. Which is fine if you want to weed people out. I can understand where someone might be frustrated if you hand them a tool and expect them to know or figure it out while they're learning new material.
      - emteycz 5y ago
        Problem is, schools expect students to do this with like 100 tools and give no guidance on what to do, and why. It's absolutely overwhelming. Even as a professional SW engineer for 10+ years, when I join a new job, the amount of new tools and workflows is overwhelming - and that's when I at least understand the descriptions. Dumping all that on a student is just idiotic, not good teaching.
- astura 5y ago
  CS programs that don't cover version control (as a concept) are a real head-scratcher to me. Git didn't exist yet when I was in college, but day 1 was still going over version control as a concept and it was made clear you'd get a zero on any assignments if you didn't use it.

ThrowawayR2 5y ago

That's a problem with the students, not the CS program. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."

emodendroket 5y ago
Maybe so, but if the argument against entertaining hiring boot camp grads is "many of them aren't good," then one must consider that the argument applies equally well to the other place most people try to source junior devs.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
ByteJockey 5y ago
I think the implied problem is that the CS programs are passing these people. Someone signing up for a class and not learning anything is a problem. Someone passing a class and not learning anything is a big problem for the signaling power of that degree.

formerkrogemp 5y ago

My CS minor program didn't cover GIT.

skeeter2020 5y ago
A CS course might cover the architecture of git, or the technical underpinnings but probably shouldn't teach you how to do the basics. In my program this sort of skill was expected to be learned on your own, or maybe a single optional tutorial session with the TA
- the-smug-one 5y ago
  My uni has an on-prem installation of Github and this is where you upload and collaborate on your solutions. This isn't course specific, this is just what you do.
garren 5y ago
It’s odd to me that you’d expect them to. The CS program I was in used github for collaboration on a couple projects, but nothing really covering git tooling. All my classmates were either already familiar with it, or more than capable of figuring it out with a search or two. I’m guessing your program covered material that required a little more effort than a google search to build basic competency in?
- emteycz 5y ago
  How do you expect people to collaborate if they can't git? Git is not that easy to grok, not even for Ph.d. students who successfuly completed some very complex scientific research (I am trying to teach Git a few of them so it's very visible to me). Making it the only way to send in homework motivates people to learn the absolute basics (I haven't seen anyone learn branching like this), but also pisses them off and a lot of times they don't want to use Git at all after that experience.
  - formerkrogemp 5y ago
    > All my classmates were either already familiar with it, or more than capable of figuring it out with a search or two. I’m guessing your program covered material that required a little more effort than a google search to build basic competency in? I did come across this charitable expectation in my CS coursework where you were given tools and expected already to know or to learn on your own. Which is fine if you want to weed people out. I can understand where someone might be frustrated if you hand them a tool and expect them to know or figure it out while they're learning new material.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      Problem is, schools expect students to do this with like 100 tools and give no guidance on what to do, and why. It's absolutely overwhelming. Even as a professional SW engineer for 10+ years, when I join a new job, the amount of new tools and workflows is overwhelming - and that's when I at least understand the descriptions. Dumping all that on a student is just idiotic, not good teaching.
astura 5y ago
CS programs that don't cover version control (as a concept) are a real head-scratcher to me. Git didn't exist yet when I was in college, but day 1 was still going over version control as a concept and it was made clear you'd get a zero on any assignments if you didn't use it.