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http://gawker.com/5805928/the-underground-website-where-you-can-buy-any-drug-imaginable http://gawker.com/5805928/the-underground-website-where-you-...

tptacek 15y ago
How real is that? Like, I know the site exists, but how many people here know people who have successfully conducted commerce on it? How are they keeping themselves from being exposed?
- spiceapps 15y ago
  As the article states, the site is only accessible through the TOR network, which is completely anonymized. All transactions are completed through Bitcoins, which is also pretty anonymous. When shipping the drugs, users are urged to get creative, such a vacuum sealing to avoid smell detection.
  - joshhart 15y ago
    I don't understand how it would be safe at all for the recipient. If the "smell prevention" failed couldn't the police just arrest whomever it was shipped to? I can understand that the shipper is pretty safe dropping the package off but if it's flagged as black-market goods it seems like the buyer is totally busted.
    - nl 15y ago
      How would it get flagged as a black-market goods?
    - polshaw 15y ago
      The law requires a little more proof than that, otherwise you could just ship drugs to people you don't like to get them arrested.
    - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
      A system that ships millions of parcels in an almost completely automated way that has only occasional narcotics canines attempting to sniff literal mountains of packages to find one that has an ounce or less of substance that has been vacuum-sealed multiple times. Then, they have to setup a trap in which the recipient knowingly takes delivery (and there can be no other way than the recipient signing for it, or else it would be entrapment or just mis-shipment, which is just as common) and catch them. All for a person who bought a small packet of drugs. I think the Feds even consider such a thing a lost cause.
- joejohnson 15y ago
  I know people who have "conducted commerce" on that site. It's real.
- datasink 15y ago
  My understanding is that the real risk is taken by the buyer. The seller can anonymously receive payment, then drop the drug envelope into a random postbox. On the buying end, regardless of Tor and Bitcoin, they still need to have it shipped to a real physical location.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    The seller still has to trade the bitcoins for something (either buy something with them, or trade them for $). Unless they only buy virtual goods, there's a trail to follow.
    - lwat 15y ago
      The seller can easily buy virtual goods, like other e-currencies, and hide his trail that way.
      - icebraining 15y ago
        Yes, that's what I said. But on the other hand, the BTC market is still very poor. Besides domains and hosting, what other virtual goods are there to buy?
        jbri 15y ago
        Real money. Sell bitcoins to people who are buying them in order to purchase drugs. There's nothing inherently linking the two transactions of "X bitcoins transferred from wallet #1 to wallet #2" and "Y USD transferred from Bob to Joe" - with sufficient care and redirection, you can make it very difficult to track down exactly where the bitcoins are being traded for real money.
        icebraining 15y ago
        But now you have to trust "Joe" to make sure his real identity can't be easily linked from his bitcoin addresses, or else they'll find out about the USD transfer.
- sneak 15y ago
  It's a tor hidden service, and it works really well. I know lots of people who have used it from both sides of the commerce equation. It's the main driving force behind the price of bitcoins on the public exchanges, which makes for a rather novel opportunity for a market-moving attack I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.
- gwern 15y ago
  Silk Road has worked well for me. Seems real enough.
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]

tptacek 15y ago

How real is that? Like, I know the site exists, but how many people here know people who have successfully conducted commerce on it? How are they keeping themselves from being exposed?

spiceapps 15y ago
As the article states, the site is only accessible through the TOR network, which is completely anonymized. All transactions are completed through Bitcoins, which is also pretty anonymous. When shipping the drugs, users are urged to get creative, such a vacuum sealing to avoid smell detection.
- joshhart 15y ago
  I don't understand how it would be safe at all for the recipient. If the "smell prevention" failed couldn't the police just arrest whomever it was shipped to? I can understand that the shipper is pretty safe dropping the package off but if it's flagged as black-market goods it seems like the buyer is totally busted.
  - nl 15y ago
    How would it get flagged as a black-market goods?
  - polshaw 15y ago
    The law requires a little more proof than that, otherwise you could just ship drugs to people you don't like to get them arrested.
  - muhfuhkuh 15y ago
    A system that ships millions of parcels in an almost completely automated way that has only occasional narcotics canines attempting to sniff literal mountains of packages to find one that has an ounce or less of substance that has been vacuum-sealed multiple times. Then, they have to setup a trap in which the recipient knowingly takes delivery (and there can be no other way than the recipient signing for it, or else it would be entrapment or just mis-shipment, which is just as common) and catch them. All for a person who bought a small packet of drugs. I think the Feds even consider such a thing a lost cause.
joejohnson 15y ago
I know people who have "conducted commerce" on that site. It's real.
datasink 15y ago
My understanding is that the real risk is taken by the buyer. The seller can anonymously receive payment, then drop the drug envelope into a random postbox. On the buying end, regardless of Tor and Bitcoin, they still need to have it shipped to a real physical location.
- icebraining 15y ago
  The seller still has to trade the bitcoins for something (either buy something with them, or trade them for $). Unless they only buy virtual goods, there's a trail to follow.
  - lwat 15y ago
    The seller can easily buy virtual goods, like other e-currencies, and hide his trail that way.
    - icebraining 15y ago
      Yes, that's what I said. But on the other hand, the BTC market is still very poor. Besides domains and hosting, what other virtual goods are there to buy?
      - jbri 15y ago
        Real money. Sell bitcoins to people who are buying them in order to purchase drugs. There's nothing inherently linking the two transactions of "X bitcoins transferred from wallet #1 to wallet #2" and "Y USD transferred from Bob to Joe" - with sufficient care and redirection, you can make it very difficult to track down exactly where the bitcoins are being traded for real money.
        icebraining 15y ago
        But now you have to trust "Joe" to make sure his real identity can't be easily linked from his bitcoin addresses, or else they'll find out about the USD transfer.
sneak 15y ago
It's a tor hidden service, and it works really well. I know lots of people who have used it from both sides of the commerce equation. It's the main driving force behind the price of bitcoins on the public exchanges, which makes for a rather novel opportunity for a market-moving attack I'll leave as an exercise for the reader.
gwern 15y ago
Silk Road has worked well for me. Seems real enough.

deleted 15y ago

[deleted]