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Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies t

Looking at the ADHD diagnostic criteria: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/diagnosis.html The criteria specifies that "There is clear evidence that the symptoms interfere with, or reduce the quality of, social, school, or work functioning." I don't see this as being the same thing as ADHD being a NEGATIVE. It's like saying that being short is a disorder because it interferes with picking fruit from tall trees, and being tall is a disorder because it interferes with your ability to be a jockey. While both of these are true, it's ultimately condescending to frame either of these as a "disorder" simply because both aspects negatively interfere with one lives in certain contexts. The diagnostic criteria does not rule out that one can be an exceptional A+ student which still has their symptoms interfere with school functioning if they're for instance repeatedly sent to the principals office for disrupting classes. Simply the very fact they have an issue that other children typically do not typically have, wipes away all consideration of their positive merits, and justifies a rather insulting label. To me, this is reflective of the typical feeling superior to those who are atypical. >I think the threshold for where we think some Neurotype is affecting our life has been lowered dramatically. Undoubtedly, but this doesn't in itself justify not lowering the threshold.

photojosh 5y ago
Agreed. "There's too many kids being diagnosed with ADHD." Um, just maybe those kids would really like to not be made to feel absolutely worthless in life because they have struggles with their attention that was previously written off as them being naughty or not trying hard enough? Don't get me started on what a horrendous environment a school can be to someone who might just operate a little bit differently.
themacguffinman 5y ago
Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC website is overly broad. If you watch more technical talks [1] on ADHD they go into much more detail about what ADHD is exactly and why it affects almost everything very severely (it has a specific impact on executive function, which cuts across a lot of behavior). It's not just a wishy washy way of describing a category of dysfunction. [1] one example: Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...
- faeriechangling 5y ago
  If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spectrum as being disabled. I don't disagree the reason ADHD is considered so serious is cultural, but I find the culture to be incredibly condescending. For context, Russell A Barkley has been a paid consultant for a large number of pharmaceutical companies. He takes the position that ADHD is akin to a physical handicap and Ritalin is akin to a wheelchair, espousing how incredibly treatable of a disorder ADHD is. I don't agree with him very much because I've found the wheelchair to have a surprising amount of side effects while not being entirely effective. It feels more like a wheelchair I sit in to please others which ruins my own health. I have watched all of Russell Barkley's videos, and took him seriously enough to try everything he advised (Which is a LOT and I had to fight with psychs to try some of it), and it didn't work. Overall, I've mostly found myself to be pretty successful without using any sort of pharmacological treatment, and thus I'm not very attached to the "ADHD as a disorder" narrative and honestly feel like it's mostly done me a disservice. I also don't really feel it's something I have to accept due to it being scientific fact, as the sheer instability of ADHD diagnostic rates makes me sceptical scientists really have that firm of a grasp on the disorder, the differences in how people react to medication is pretty much completely unexplained by the current scientific theories, and the current scientific theories don't really explain that well why people without ADHD seem to have performance enhancing benefits from the drugs [2]. Which makes me wonder if we're "treating" ADHD, or if we're just letting people with ADHD dope while not allowing others to. To me, I suspect ADHD is an oversimplification of a more complex underlying reality, similar to IBS. I am much more keen on the "ADHD as as social construct" theory than I am on the "ADHD as a medical condition" theory. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/
  - GavinMcG 5y ago
    What do you make of the research concluding that MRI can identify ADHD and distinguish among subtypes? https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226 https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226

photojosh 5y ago

Agreed. "There's too many kids being diagnosed with ADHD." Um, just maybe those kids would really like to not be made to feel absolutely worthless in life because they have struggles with their attention that was previously written off as them being naughty or not trying hard enough? Don't get me started on what a horrendous environment a school can be to someone who might just operate a little bit differently.

themacguffinman 5y ago

Being short can be a disorder. It just so happens that picking fruit from tall trees by itself isn't considered by society to be a very necessary & important activity, while "social, school, or work functioning" is. Adults who remain too short to do things that are considered necessary & important for adults to do would almost certainly have a negative disorder of some kind. That criteria sentence from the CDC website is overly broad. If you watch more technical talks [1] on ADHD they go into much more detail about what ADHD is exactly and why it affects almost everything very severely (it has a specific impact on executive function, which cuts across a lot of behavior). It's not just a wishy washy way of describing a category of dysfunction. [1] one example: Dr Russell A Barkley ADHD - The 30 Essential Ideas everyone needs to know https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wWGP8i0mAs-cvY https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzBixSjmbc8eFl6UX5_wW...

faeriechangling 5y ago
If the DSM-V definition is overly broad, and the truth behind ADHD is different, is that not fairly alarming? Currently 9.4% of children are diagnosed with ADHD[1], but we don't diagnose 9.4% of the population as having a disorder on merit of being very tall or very short. In fact, with ADHD, we're also not also counting the opposite of ADHD as a disability, so we're counting a HUGE swathe of the lower end of the spectrum as being disabled. I don't disagree the reason ADHD is considered so serious is cultural, but I find the culture to be incredibly condescending. For context, Russell A Barkley has been a paid consultant for a large number of pharmaceutical companies. He takes the position that ADHD is akin to a physical handicap and Ritalin is akin to a wheelchair, espousing how incredibly treatable of a disorder ADHD is. I don't agree with him very much because I've found the wheelchair to have a surprising amount of side effects while not being entirely effective. It feels more like a wheelchair I sit in to please others which ruins my own health. I have watched all of Russell Barkley's videos, and took him seriously enough to try everything he advised (Which is a LOT and I had to fight with psychs to try some of it), and it didn't work. Overall, I've mostly found myself to be pretty successful without using any sort of pharmacological treatment, and thus I'm not very attached to the "ADHD as a disorder" narrative and honestly feel like it's mostly done me a disservice. I also don't really feel it's something I have to accept due to it being scientific fact, as the sheer instability of ADHD diagnostic rates makes me sceptical scientists really have that firm of a grasp on the disorder, the differences in how people react to medication is pretty much completely unexplained by the current scientific theories, and the current scientific theories don't really explain that well why people without ADHD seem to have performance enhancing benefits from the drugs [2]. Which makes me wonder if we're "treating" ADHD, or if we're just letting people with ADHD dope while not allowing others to. To me, I suspect ADHD is an oversimplification of a more complex underlying reality, similar to IBS. I am much more keen on the "ADHD as as social construct" theory than I am on the "ADHD as a medical condition" theory. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/adhd/data.html [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3489818/
- GavinMcG 5y ago
  What do you make of the research concluding that MRI can identify ADHD and distinguish among subtypes? https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226 https://pubs.rsna.org/doi/10.1148/radiol.2017170226