5 ms·

>I’d love to understand this in detail. Whatcha want to know? >When I was at Amazon, we didn’t take boot camp grads very seriously, and in recent years the co

by leesec 4y ago

>I’d love to understand this in detail. Whatcha want to know? >When I was at Amazon, we didn’t take boot camp grads very seriously, and in recent years the company only looked into this to increase diversity hiring, specifically boot camps oriented towards either women or the LGBT community. I think because average candidate quality of bootcamp grad probably pretty low, due to shortness of the program and people thinking all they need to do is complete the bootcamp, when really you need to stay learning for years. Also Amazon is top tier, wouldn't expect someone with 3 months experience being able to keep up unless they were really top notch.

emodendroket 4y ago
Well, the thing is, if you ever do student interviews you'll realize many people in CS programs appear not to be getting that much from the classes either.
- ThrowawayR2 4y ago
  That's a problem with the students, not the CS program. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    Maybe so, but if the argument against entertaining hiring boot camp grads is "many of them aren't good," then one must consider that the argument applies equally well to the other place most people try to source junior devs.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - ByteJockey 4y ago
    I think the implied problem is that the CS programs are passing these people. Someone signing up for a class and not learning anything is a problem. Someone passing a class and not learning anything is a big problem for the signaling power of that degree.
- formerkrogemp 4y ago
  My CS minor program didn't cover GIT.
  - skeeter2020 4y ago
    A CS course might cover the architecture of git, or the technical underpinnings but probably shouldn't teach you how to do the basics. In my program this sort of skill was expected to be learned on your own, or maybe a single optional tutorial session with the TA
    - the-smug-one 4y ago
      My uni has an on-prem installation of Github and this is where you upload and collaborate on your solutions. This isn't course specific, this is just what you do.
  - garren 4y ago
    It’s odd to me that you’d expect them to. The CS program I was in used github for collaboration on a couple projects, but nothing really covering git tooling. All my classmates were either already familiar with it, or more than capable of figuring it out with a search or two. I’m guessing your program covered material that required a little more effort than a google search to build basic competency in?
    - emteycz 4y ago
      How do you expect people to collaborate if they can't git? Git is not that easy to grok, not even for Ph.d. students who successfuly completed some very complex scientific research (I am trying to teach Git a few of them so it's very visible to me). Making it the only way to send in homework motivates people to learn the absolute basics (I haven't seen anyone learn branching like this), but also pisses them off and a lot of times they don't want to use Git at all after that experience.
      - formerkrogemp 4y ago
naomiajacobs 4y ago
> Also Amazon is top tier, wouldn't expect someone with 3 months experience being able to keep up unless they were really top notch. I attended a bootcamp in 2015 and know two people, one in my cohort, and one in the next, who both got jobs at Amazon right out of the bootcamp. At the time, cohorts were every 6 weeks with 80 people/cohort, so that's ~1 out of 80 bootcamp grads who made it into Amazon (granted, with a small sample size), with more in FAANG generally (Google was more open to bootcamp grads than the others).

by leesec 4y ago

emodendroket 4y ago

Well, the thing is, if you ever do student interviews you'll realize many people in CS programs appear not to be getting that much from the classes either.

ThrowawayR2 4y ago
That's a problem with the students, not the CS program. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink."
- emodendroket 4y ago
  Maybe so, but if the argument against entertaining hiring boot camp grads is "many of them aren't good," then one must consider that the argument applies equally well to the other place most people try to source junior devs.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ByteJockey 4y ago
  I think the implied problem is that the CS programs are passing these people. Someone signing up for a class and not learning anything is a problem. Someone passing a class and not learning anything is a big problem for the signaling power of that degree.
formerkrogemp 4y ago
My CS minor program didn't cover GIT.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  A CS course might cover the architecture of git, or the technical underpinnings but probably shouldn't teach you how to do the basics. In my program this sort of skill was expected to be learned on your own, or maybe a single optional tutorial session with the TA
  - the-smug-one 4y ago
    My uni has an on-prem installation of Github and this is where you upload and collaborate on your solutions. This isn't course specific, this is just what you do.
- garren 4y ago
  It’s odd to me that you’d expect them to. The CS program I was in used github for collaboration on a couple projects, but nothing really covering git tooling. All my classmates were either already familiar with it, or more than capable of figuring it out with a search or two. I’m guessing your program covered material that required a little more effort than a google search to build basic competency in?
  - emteycz 4y ago
    How do you expect people to collaborate if they can't git? Git is not that easy to grok, not even for Ph.d. students who successfuly completed some very complex scientific research (I am trying to teach Git a few of them so it's very visible to me). Making it the only way to send in homework motivates people to learn the absolute basics (I haven't seen anyone learn branching like this), but also pisses them off and a lot of times they don't want to use Git at all after that experience.
    - formerkrogemp 4y ago

naomiajacobs 4y ago

> Also Amazon is top tier, wouldn't expect someone with 3 months experience being able to keep up unless they were really top notch. I attended a bootcamp in 2015 and know two people, one in my cohort, and one in the next, who both got jobs at Amazon right out of the bootcamp. At the time, cohorts were every 6 weeks with 80 people/cohort, so that's ~1 out of 80 bootcamp grads who made it into Amazon (granted, with a small sample size), with more in FAANG generally (Google was more open to bootcamp grads than the others).