5 ms·

Adderall does not work on NT brains. They would be able to perform tasks regardless.

by scollet 4y ago

lghh 4y ago
Adderall gets you to baseline. If you're already baseline, it shoots you past it.
symlinkk 4y ago
Where’d you hear that? It works quite well on people without ADHD
- ravi-delia 4y ago
  It, for many people, works differently. If you look at people talking about their experiences, those with ADD consistently describe different effects than NT people. It's still good, but it has more of an effect on energy than focus, though the two are well correlated. It might be an overshoot/undershoot thing, it might be that different effects are salient, but I can assure you that if Adderall could do as much for a healthy person as it does for me, we'd be living in utopia.
kragen 4y ago
Adderall has been one of the most popular recreational drugs since the 01960s, despite causing multi-organ failure in common recreational doses, which are higher than the therapeutic doses. If it didn't work on neurotypical brains, it wouldn't be popular.
- luckydata 4y ago
  I think you're purposefully misrepresenting what "works" means in this context. ADHD people can think a lot more clearly with it. The effect of stimulants is completely different on a brain like ours compared to a normal person as it helps regulates brain function in a way that ours can't. For normal people it just gets you euphoric and agitated, we get CALMER cause we live in a state of constant agitation.
  - kragen 4y ago
    It's not completely different or even mostly different. Getting euphoric and agitated happens with doses an order of magnitude higher than therapeutic doses. Low-dose Adderall has been used to help neurotypical people focus for at least a century, though not of course by that name. Your vicious, baseless attack on my integrity has no place here. Withdraw it immediately.
    - luckydata 4y ago
      I'm even more convinced now than before that you're in bad faith.
      - kragen 4y ago
        In https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31243297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31243297 I caught you outright lying about what the relevant studies said, I suppose in hopes that other people wouldn't read them. Your accusations of bad faith are groundless and have no place here. That kind of conduct does not belong on this site.
  - astrange 4y ago
    It really isn't completely different. It does all these things in all people, the difference just being which dose is right for you. I think this was made up to stop it from getting banned entirely like it is in Asia.
    - chrsig 4y ago
      citation?
      - kragen 4y ago
        Jesus fuck. Spencer RC, Devilbiss DM, Berridge CW (June 2015). "The Cognition-Enhancing Effects of Psychostimulants Involve Direct Action in the Prefrontal Cortex". Biological Psychiatry. 77 (11): 940–950. doi:10.1016/j.biopsych.2014.09.013. PMC 4377121. PMID 25499957. Ilieva IP, Hook CJ, Farah MJ (June 2015). "Prescription Stimulants' Effects on Healthy Inhibitory Control, Working Memory, and Episodic Memory: A Meta-analysis". Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience. 27 (6): 1069–1089. doi:10.1162/jocn_a_00776. PMID 25591060. S2CID 15788121. Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE (2009). "Chapter 13: Higher Cognitive Function and Behavioral Control". In Sydor A, Brown RY (eds.). Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience (2nd ed.). New York, USA: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 318, 321. ISBN 9780071481274 Bagot KS, Kaminer Y (April 2014). "Efficacy of stimulants for cognitive enhancement in non-attention deficit hyperactivity disorder youth: a systematic review". Addiction. 109 (4): 547–557. doi:10.1111/add.12460. PMC 4471173. PMID 24749160. Wood S, Sage JR, Shuman T, Anagnostaras SG (January 2014). "Psychostimulants and cognition: a continuum of behavioral and cognitive activation". Pharmacological Reviews. 66 (1): 193–221. doi:10.1124/pr.112.007054. PMC 3880463. PMID 24344115. Teter CJ, McCabe SE, LaGrange K, Cranford JA, Boyd CJ (October 2006). "Illicit use of specific prescription stimulants among college students: prevalence, motives, and routes of administration". Pharmacotherapy. 26 (10): 1501–1510. doi:10.1592/phco.26.10.1501. PMC 1794223. PMID 16999660.
- ravi-delia 4y ago
  It absolutely has, going by people's subjective ratings, different effects on NT people. That's not to say it doesn't work, there are plenty of explanations. We don't really get how neurotransmitters interact, so it's possible these drugs trip some cascade effect which incidentally treats ADD. More likely, there's a good place to be on the tradeoff curve and different symptoms below and above it. Perhaps large enough doses could push through (though I doubt that amphetamines are so well targeted to permit it), but it's fair to say that if I'm at a 0 and Adderall takes me to a 2, and an NT person is a 3 with Adderall taking them to 4, I can get to 2 and they can't. Is that "working differently"? Depends on how you look at it.
  - kragen 4y ago
    I think that's an excellent explanation.

Adderall does not work on NT brains. They would be able to perform tasks regardless.

lghh 4y ago

Adderall gets you to baseline. If you're already baseline, it shoots you past it.

symlinkk 4y ago

Where’d you hear that? It works quite well on people without ADHD

ravi-delia 4y ago
It, for many people, works differently. If you look at people talking about their experiences, those with ADD consistently describe different effects than NT people. It's still good, but it has more of an effect on energy than focus, though the two are well correlated. It might be an overshoot/undershoot thing, it might be that different effects are salient, but I can assure you that if Adderall could do as much for a healthy person as it does for me, we'd be living in utopia.

kragen 4y ago

Adderall has been one of the most popular recreational drugs since the 01960s, despite causing multi-organ failure in common recreational doses, which are higher than the therapeutic doses. If it didn't work on neurotypical brains, it wouldn't be popular.

luckydata 4y ago
I think you're purposefully misrepresenting what "works" means in this context. ADHD people can think a lot more clearly with it. The effect of stimulants is completely different on a brain like ours compared to a normal person as it helps regulates brain function in a way that ours can't. For normal people it just gets you euphoric and agitated, we get CALMER cause we live in a state of constant agitation.
- kragen 4y ago
  It's not completely different or even mostly different. Getting euphoric and agitated happens with doses an order of magnitude higher than therapeutic doses. Low-dose Adderall has been used to help neurotypical people focus for at least a century, though not of course by that name. Your vicious, baseless attack on my integrity has no place here. Withdraw it immediately.
  - luckydata 4y ago
    I'm even more convinced now than before that you're in bad faith.
    - kragen 4y ago
      In https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31243297 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31243297 I caught you outright lying about what the relevant studies said, I suppose in hopes that other people wouldn't read them. Your accusations of bad faith are groundless and have no place here. That kind of conduct does not belong on this site.
- astrange 4y ago
  It really isn't completely different. It does all these things in all people, the difference just being which dose is right for you. I think this was made up to stop it from getting banned entirely like it is in Asia.
  - chrsig 4y ago
    citation?
    - kragen 4y ago
      Jesus fuck. Spencer RC, Devilbiss DM, Berridge CW (June 2015). "The Cognition-Enhancing Effects of Psychostimulants Involve Direct Action in the Prefrontal Cortex". Biological Psychiatry. 77 (11): 940–950. doi:10.1016/j.biopsych.2014.09.013. PMC 4377121. PMID 25499957. Ilieva IP, Hook CJ, Farah MJ (June 2015). "Prescription Stimulants' Effects on Healthy Inhibitory Control, Working Memory, and Episodic Memory: A Meta-analysis". Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience. 27 (6): 1069–1089. doi:10.1162/jocn_a_00776. PMID 25591060. S2CID 15788121. Malenka RC, Nestler EJ, Hyman SE (2009). "Chapter 13: Higher Cognitive Function and Behavioral Control". In Sydor A, Brown RY (eds.). Molecular Neuropharmacology: A Foundation for Clinical Neuroscience (2nd ed.). New York, USA: McGraw-Hill Medical. pp. 318, 321. ISBN 9780071481274 Bagot KS, Kaminer Y (April 2014). "Efficacy of stimulants for cognitive enhancement in non-attention deficit hyperactivity disorder youth: a systematic review". Addiction. 109 (4): 547–557. doi:10.1111/add.12460. PMC 4471173. PMID 24749160. Wood S, Sage JR, Shuman T, Anagnostaras SG (January 2014). "Psychostimulants and cognition: a continuum of behavioral and cognitive activation". Pharmacological Reviews. 66 (1): 193–221. doi:10.1124/pr.112.007054. PMC 3880463. PMID 24344115. Teter CJ, McCabe SE, LaGrange K, Cranford JA, Boyd CJ (October 2006). "Illicit use of specific prescription stimulants among college students: prevalence, motives, and routes of administration". Pharmacotherapy. 26 (10): 1501–1510. doi:10.1592/phco.26.10.1501. PMC 1794223. PMID 16999660.
ravi-delia 4y ago
It absolutely has, going by people's subjective ratings, different effects on NT people. That's not to say it doesn't work, there are plenty of explanations. We don't really get how neurotransmitters interact, so it's possible these drugs trip some cascade effect which incidentally treats ADD. More likely, there's a good place to be on the tradeoff curve and different symptoms below and above it. Perhaps large enough doses could push through (though I doubt that amphetamines are so well targeted to permit it), but it's fair to say that if I'm at a 0 and Adderall takes me to a 2, and an NT person is a 3 with Adderall taking them to 4, I can get to 2 and they can't. Is that "working differently"? Depends on how you look at it.
- kragen 4y ago
  I think that's an excellent explanation.