3 ms·

Yes, it does seem high as ADHD is a recessive genetic disorder, i.e. 7% should be what the data shows.

user_7832 4y ago
> as ADHD is a recessive genetic disorder, i.e. 7% should be what the data shows Might you have a source for that? This is the first time I'm hearing this. I'm aware adhd is genetic but if it's recessive it needs both parents to have it for the child to have it, right?
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  ADHD is many things and nurture can be sufficent independently of genetics although I wonder the prevalence.
  - elcritch 4y ago
    I’d be highly skeptical of that. ADHD isn’t “oops I forgot my keys again lol” (that happens sure), but ADHD is the literally being physically incapable of “breaking out of this current hyper-focus despite knowing consequences”. It depends on adhd subtype for the details but generally is a pervasive affect across multiple neural pathways. Though perhaps there are neural pathways that can be critically altered in toddler years by damage from chemicals or trauma, etc. Not sure I’d call that nurture in the classic meaning, but rather environmental damage.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      Great answer but nurture really denote your whole environment, and chronic stressors or even chronic sleep deprivation can induce to various and durable extents ADHD-like phenotypes. It impacts many things including epigenetics. As you greatly say, I especially refer to what we call critical-periods in human development, especially early childhood but the most important underlooked one being human gestation where many modern contaminants can induce ADHD like phenotype. however, about "breaking out of this current hyper-focus despite knowing consequences" How do you know if this is a common ADHD diagnosis? ADHDers, have issue not being distracted is the most popular diagnosis. hyperfocus is the opposite, it is being hypnotized on a task. I have no idea about the prevalence and pharmacological differences of the latter. I am not hyperactive and not that easily distractable but for sure I am completely pathologically symptomatic of hyperfocus that is cognitively pleasant but a near hypnotic state where I loose in all absoluteness, track of time, and priorities. I would bet this ADHD variant is very rare and might not be pharmacology fixed as well by stimulants. A mere but concise approximation of my condition would be, in addition to the consciousness/attention deficit of (my surroundings, time and priorities) while doing something, in addition to this, My brain reward me too much, I am stimulated, naturally high while e.g. thinking and searching about a topic. If so then rewarding my brain even more via dopamine doesn't seems like a fix theoretically?
      - elcritch 4y ago
        Yah the epigenetics are interesting, especially with childhood trauma. But Hyperfocus is commonly discussed on ADHDer forums and medical literature. It’s more common symptom for “inattentive subtype”. Actually there’s one ADHD’er on Instagram who has some hilarious short videos on it. ADHD is probably better described as not “lack of attention” but “difficulty in choosing where focus goes”. In the medical literature and American medical guidelines (DSM) there are three subtypes of adhd based on symptoms: hyperactive, inattentive, or combined. The labels aren’t quite accirate, but hyperactive is the classic “boys running around out of control” adhd. Inattentive is the “absent minded professor” type. Sounds like you may be more of the “inattentive subtype” which is what I was officially diagnosed with at a university health center after weeks of testing, a 6 hours IQ exam, and counseling. Less experienced doctors might not know about it. The trance you describe when hitting that hyperfocus state is probably my “biggest weakness” adhd wise; it’s also my biggest asset when I can guide it onto something useful. But yes I take Concerta largely to help me be able to break out of those states. Though it takes counseling and mental effort to take advantage of it. Lately I’ve been enjoying programming almost to the exclusion of everything else in my life. I’m trying to rebalance myself a bit. I hope you can read up on it and maybe find a counselor with experience too. Medication needs to be combined with therapy to help take full advantage of it, IMHO.
        elcritch 4y ago
        Connor DeWolfe is an example of one of my favorite Tiktok/Instagram’ers on ADHD topics. Here’s a reel he did on hyperfocus and perfectionism: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CY2UjETKeb_/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= https://www.instagram.com/reel/CY2UjETKeb_/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M... His videos are great because they’re funny, short, and surprisingly touch a lot of topics that ADHDers feel alone about.
      - samtho 4y ago
        You described how my ADHD presents to the letter, down to the rewarding aspect of what I call being “in flow” or what you said about thinking/searching about a topic. I also have a sleep disorder that my Adderall helps treat in tandem for which I also take armodafinil. I believe these two issues are related but I lack the educational background to dive deeper into it. Funny enough, I wanted to do chemical engineering and studied pharmacology briefly before I found that my ADHD would be a major hinderance to that major. You sound like an alternate universe version of me.
    - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
      Nurture can mean diet. And a lack of Omega 3 in childhood may play a role in a subset off pateints: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666354621001137 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266635462... If genetics cannot explain all ADHD cases then Nurture has to play some kind of role.
- sjg007 4y ago
  ADHD is certainly not Mendelian. There are likely multiple genes involved probably around specific pathways. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-018-0070-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-018-0070-0
  - lazide 4y ago
    Seems like it’s about 75% heritable (if one or both parents have it), definitely not clearly recessive.
    - astrange 4y ago
      "Heritable" doesn't mean it's genetic. You exist in the same environment as your parents - literally you're born inside them.
      - sjg007 4y ago
        There's epigenetics. This is why we see differences with monozygotic twins.
        astrange 4y ago
        That's if you started studying them right after birth maybe, but otherwise it's more likely one had more childhood lead exposure than the other or ate different diets, things like that. Air pollution in particular seems to be really really bad for all kinds of health.
SemanticStrengh 4y ago
No it is ad-hoc, mild ADHD cover at least 15% of the population, only the official ad-hoc severe impairment impacts only ~5% of the population.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> Yes, it does seem high as ADHD is a recessive genetic disorder, ADHD isn't established to be recessive genetic disorder (there's multiple genes associated with increased risk of ADHD, it's not simple trait), there's no reason a recessive genetic condition would necessarily have a 7% incidence, and ADHD is not the only thing Ritalin is used for.

> as ADHD is a recessive genetic disorder, i.e. 7% should be what the data shows Might you have a source for that? This is the first time I'm hearing this. I'm aware adhd is genetic but if it's recessive it needs both parents to have it for the child to have it, right?

SemanticStrengh 4y ago
ADHD is many things and nurture can be sufficent independently of genetics although I wonder the prevalence.
- elcritch 4y ago
  I’d be highly skeptical of that. ADHD isn’t “oops I forgot my keys again lol” (that happens sure), but ADHD is the literally being physically incapable of “breaking out of this current hyper-focus despite knowing consequences”. It depends on adhd subtype for the details but generally is a pervasive affect across multiple neural pathways. Though perhaps there are neural pathways that can be critically altered in toddler years by damage from chemicals or trauma, etc. Not sure I’d call that nurture in the classic meaning, but rather environmental damage.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    Great answer but nurture really denote your whole environment, and chronic stressors or even chronic sleep deprivation can induce to various and durable extents ADHD-like phenotypes. It impacts many things including epigenetics. As you greatly say, I especially refer to what we call critical-periods in human development, especially early childhood but the most important underlooked one being human gestation where many modern contaminants can induce ADHD like phenotype. however, about "breaking out of this current hyper-focus despite knowing consequences" How do you know if this is a common ADHD diagnosis? ADHDers, have issue not being distracted is the most popular diagnosis. hyperfocus is the opposite, it is being hypnotized on a task. I have no idea about the prevalence and pharmacological differences of the latter. I am not hyperactive and not that easily distractable but for sure I am completely pathologically symptomatic of hyperfocus that is cognitively pleasant but a near hypnotic state where I loose in all absoluteness, track of time, and priorities. I would bet this ADHD variant is very rare and might not be pharmacology fixed as well by stimulants. A mere but concise approximation of my condition would be, in addition to the consciousness/attention deficit of (my surroundings, time and priorities) while doing something, in addition to this, My brain reward me too much, I am stimulated, naturally high while e.g. thinking and searching about a topic. If so then rewarding my brain even more via dopamine doesn't seems like a fix theoretically?
    - elcritch 4y ago
      Yah the epigenetics are interesting, especially with childhood trauma. But Hyperfocus is commonly discussed on ADHDer forums and medical literature. It’s more common symptom for “inattentive subtype”. Actually there’s one ADHD’er on Instagram who has some hilarious short videos on it. ADHD is probably better described as not “lack of attention” but “difficulty in choosing where focus goes”. In the medical literature and American medical guidelines (DSM) there are three subtypes of adhd based on symptoms: hyperactive, inattentive, or combined. The labels aren’t quite accirate, but hyperactive is the classic “boys running around out of control” adhd. Inattentive is the “absent minded professor” type. Sounds like you may be more of the “inattentive subtype” which is what I was officially diagnosed with at a university health center after weeks of testing, a 6 hours IQ exam, and counseling. Less experienced doctors might not know about it. The trance you describe when hitting that hyperfocus state is probably my “biggest weakness” adhd wise; it’s also my biggest asset when I can guide it onto something useful. But yes I take Concerta largely to help me be able to break out of those states. Though it takes counseling and mental effort to take advantage of it. Lately I’ve been enjoying programming almost to the exclusion of everything else in my life. I’m trying to rebalance myself a bit. I hope you can read up on it and maybe find a counselor with experience too. Medication needs to be combined with therapy to help take full advantage of it, IMHO.
      - elcritch 4y ago
        Connor DeWolfe is an example of one of my favorite Tiktok/Instagram’ers on ADHD topics. Here’s a reel he did on hyperfocus and perfectionism: https://www.instagram.com/reel/CY2UjETKeb_/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= https://www.instagram.com/reel/CY2UjETKeb_/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M... His videos are great because they’re funny, short, and surprisingly touch a lot of topics that ADHDers feel alone about.
    - samtho 4y ago
      You described how my ADHD presents to the letter, down to the rewarding aspect of what I call being “in flow” or what you said about thinking/searching about a topic. I also have a sleep disorder that my Adderall helps treat in tandem for which I also take armodafinil. I believe these two issues are related but I lack the educational background to dive deeper into it. Funny enough, I wanted to do chemical engineering and studied pharmacology briefly before I found that my ADHD would be a major hinderance to that major. You sound like an alternate universe version of me.
  - FollowingTheDao 4y ago
    Nurture can mean diet. And a lack of Omega 3 in childhood may play a role in a subset off pateints: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666354621001137 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S266635462... If genetics cannot explain all ADHD cases then Nurture has to play some kind of role.
sjg007 4y ago
ADHD is certainly not Mendelian. There are likely multiple genes involved probably around specific pathways. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-018-0070-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-018-0070-0
- lazide 4y ago
  Seems like it’s about 75% heritable (if one or both parents have it), definitely not clearly recessive.
  - astrange 4y ago
    "Heritable" doesn't mean it's genetic. You exist in the same environment as your parents - literally you're born inside them.
    - sjg007 4y ago
      There's epigenetics. This is why we see differences with monozygotic twins.
      - astrange 4y ago
        That's if you started studying them right after birth maybe, but otherwise it's more likely one had more childhood lead exposure than the other or ate different diets, things like that. Air pollution in particular seems to be really really bad for all kinds of health.

SemanticStrengh 4y ago

No it is ad-hoc, mild ADHD cover at least 15% of the population, only the official ad-hoc severe impairment impacts only ~5% of the population.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> Yes, it does seem high as ADHD is a recessive genetic disorder, ADHD isn't established to be recessive genetic disorder (there's multiple genes associated with increased risk of ADHD, it's not simple trait), there's no reason a recessive genetic condition would necessarily have a 7% incidence, and ADHD is not the only thing Ritalin is used for.