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As the 'most poor', I can tell you that wages and costs do not have a similar ratio across different countries. I think its fair I get paid the same for the sam

As the 'most poor', I can tell you that wages and costs do not have a similar ratio across different countries. I think its fair I get paid the same for the same quality and quantity of work, and can't think of a reason why that would be ethically unsound. India has great developers and they are already hired everywhere in the world, do they really need to relocate for that?

kkfx 5y ago
Surely not, but those developers in their country how much spend for a good house, connection, health, food etc respect of let's say Norway? Remember that moneys are NOT a value themselves but a unit of measure we all agree/accept, to represent an underlying value for helping exchange, so the same 100 USD/EUR/* represent a much big sum in Indian rupees just because renewing the house, get some services etc costs much less there. It's not a matter of skills/time price. Let's say I want to renovate my house. Here (France) that might be for instance 50k EUR for a not-so-new house, how much can be an equivalent house renovation cost for an equivalent home in India? Is it fair for you getting the same amount of wage and with this very amount being able to buy much more or much less? Surely, costs differs, so in a country, like USA a newborn or a broken leg might be far more expensive than here, while a car might be far less expensive. That's part of the reason why I say ok for location-independent costs INSIDE nation borders, because a broken leg or a car cost almost the same in Alaska or in New Mexico, but not beyond national border because here a car is more expensive a broken leg in money cost normally nothing.
- unmole 5y ago
  The single largest expense for most people is housing, the cost of which varies widely within a country. Add to that state and city specific taxes and you have even more variation in effective disposable income. The idea that pay should be the same within a country but not across countries seems like special pleading.
  - kkfx 4y ago
    Housing is an expensive, but not the only in the game: let's talk about pensions? Not only: what do you think States are for? They, formally, represent the interests of a cohort of people, in Democracies they formally represent the people at a whole. In a global work market how they can represent rights of their Citizens? Declaring war against some corporate-state? Witch law apply to a cross-border income? Which taxes? It's clear to anyone that the actual model of megacorps, private equity, zaibatsu, chaebol etc is to became Sovereign corporatocratic states that profit from a grey area between them and real States, but it's equally clear that have NOTHING to do with fairness or jobs. It's just a modern version of classic Indian's companies from UK, a group of criminals, drug smugglers, oppressors evolved to became banks (that's the REAL history of HSBC, for instance) profiting of some lie and peoples life. Location independent wages inside a country means help leveling the wages in the country, under a common law, fiscal system and not-that-different costs because yes houses have different prices, but connected enough for WFH ones do have not that much differences in developed countries. That means helping a transition from a urban-centric model to a distributed Riviera model. It's positive for employers and employees. Going beyond border is positive ONLY for biggest companies with their global footprint, big of IT thanks to their knowledge thanks to their mass surveillance capitalism AGAINST all others actors. If you are really convinced please try to prove the contrary. Try to see how a SBE can benefit from such market vs from the same inside country borders. For instance.
    - unmole 4y ago
      > what do you think States are for? Whatever they're for, they have nothing to do with how much private companies decide to pay employees outside their borders. I'm not going bother responding to the rest of your rant.
- nathias 4y ago
  Yes, it's not about skills/time/price it's about the relation of the worker and the market, this market is very much not a local market, but almost completely global one, wages however stay very local. Costs differ, but they don't differ uniformly nor do they differ in the same ratio, sales are more globalized than the workforce, so this fact alone tells you that the wages will lag behind the trends (like behind inflation). There is no scientific way to measure this price difference, our best practical way was with local currencies but that's now abandoned in favor of more federated monetary systems. Costs aside, which represent a relative and local measure think about the absolute measure, which you need to measure savings.

kkfx 5y ago

Surely not, but those developers in their country how much spend for a good house, connection, health, food etc respect of let's say Norway? Remember that moneys are NOT a value themselves but a unit of measure we all agree/accept, to represent an underlying value for helping exchange, so the same 100 USD/EUR/* represent a much big sum in Indian rupees just because renewing the house, get some services etc costs much less there. It's not a matter of skills/time price. Let's say I want to renovate my house. Here (France) that might be for instance 50k EUR for a not-so-new house, how much can be an equivalent house renovation cost for an equivalent home in India? Is it fair for you getting the same amount of wage and with this very amount being able to buy much more or much less? Surely, costs differs, so in a country, like USA a newborn or a broken leg might be far more expensive than here, while a car might be far less expensive. That's part of the reason why I say ok for location-independent costs INSIDE nation borders, because a broken leg or a car cost almost the same in Alaska or in New Mexico, but not beyond national border because here a car is more expensive a broken leg in money cost normally nothing.

unmole 5y ago
The single largest expense for most people is housing, the cost of which varies widely within a country. Add to that state and city specific taxes and you have even more variation in effective disposable income. The idea that pay should be the same within a country but not across countries seems like special pleading.
- kkfx 4y ago
  Housing is an expensive, but not the only in the game: let's talk about pensions? Not only: what do you think States are for? They, formally, represent the interests of a cohort of people, in Democracies they formally represent the people at a whole. In a global work market how they can represent rights of their Citizens? Declaring war against some corporate-state? Witch law apply to a cross-border income? Which taxes? It's clear to anyone that the actual model of megacorps, private equity, zaibatsu, chaebol etc is to became Sovereign corporatocratic states that profit from a grey area between them and real States, but it's equally clear that have NOTHING to do with fairness or jobs. It's just a modern version of classic Indian's companies from UK, a group of criminals, drug smugglers, oppressors evolved to became banks (that's the REAL history of HSBC, for instance) profiting of some lie and peoples life. Location independent wages inside a country means help leveling the wages in the country, under a common law, fiscal system and not-that-different costs because yes houses have different prices, but connected enough for WFH ones do have not that much differences in developed countries. That means helping a transition from a urban-centric model to a distributed Riviera model. It's positive for employers and employees. Going beyond border is positive ONLY for biggest companies with their global footprint, big of IT thanks to their knowledge thanks to their mass surveillance capitalism AGAINST all others actors. If you are really convinced please try to prove the contrary. Try to see how a SBE can benefit from such market vs from the same inside country borders. For instance.
  - unmole 4y ago
    > what do you think States are for? Whatever they're for, they have nothing to do with how much private companies decide to pay employees outside their borders. I'm not going bother responding to the rest of your rant.
nathias 4y ago
Yes, it's not about skills/time/price it's about the relation of the worker and the market, this market is very much not a local market, but almost completely global one, wages however stay very local. Costs differ, but they don't differ uniformly nor do they differ in the same ratio, sales are more globalized than the workforce, so this fact alone tells you that the wages will lag behind the trends (like behind inflation). There is no scientific way to measure this price difference, our best practical way was with local currencies but that's now abandoned in favor of more federated monetary systems. Costs aside, which represent a relative and local measure think about the absolute measure, which you need to measure savings.