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IANAL, but: According to the message history in the court filings, Merryman responded on July 1: “The price for wormhole.com is a firm US $ 50,000. -Dick-.” T

IANAL, but: According to the message history in the court filings, Merryman responded on July 1: “The price for wormhole.com is a firm US $ 50,000. -Dick-.” To Merryman’s surprise, Jump agreed. Indicates that there was a counteroffer for $50k and an acceptance of that offer. 323's post is wrong because quotes are not the same as what happens in the offer/counteroffer/acceptance contract dance, they're a different thing. Quotes are related to performing work for a price.[1] Here it was Offer => Counteroffer => Acceptance. [1] https://www.freshbooks.com/hub/estimates/is-quote-contract https://www.freshbooks.com/hub/estimates/is-quote-contract

car_analogy 4y ago
But only one party performed "acceptance". Why should negotiating a price mean that the standard for accepting an offer is lowered?
- site-packages1 4y ago
  I don't think I quite understand. In traditional contract flow, taking out unrelated things: one person presents an offer, the other person accepts that offer, and on acceptance a contract is created. It doesn't then go back to the offeror to accept the acceptance. I may be misunderstanding you.
  - akvadrako 4y ago
    Of course it does. I say: I will sell you my house for $1. If you accept, I'm under no obligation to actually sell it.
    - Ferrotin 4y ago
      Real estate by law has to be done in writing.
    - tempnow987 4y ago
      If you put this in writing, and they accept, that is offer and acceptance. This is done all the time by the way with houses. Someone puts an offer out to the seller, they accept, that's it, you are under contract. Alternatively, sellers can offer or counter offer to buyers. In this case sellers will say, here is my offer, when buyer accepts, you are under contract. Same thing with engagement letters for professional services. Signed proposed engagement letter presented to buyer (usually with an expiration and a few outs), buyer accepts, now you have a contract.
      - akvadrako 4y ago
        It is in writing; wtf do you mean?
      - car_analogy 4y ago
        There's offers and then there's binding offers - I assume it must be made very clear if an offer is binding before it is legally treated as such.
        tempnow987 4y ago
        This is entirely false. There's been plenty of litigation in this area. If you offer $230K, the other party accepts, then you are done. You can sometimes rescind before acceptance. Email Contract Safety Tips Since the validity of email contracts is generally accepted under the law, it is important to exercise caution when doing business through email. To that end, the following tips may be helpful: A contract need not be physically signed to be agreed to. A contract may be created over a series of emails, not just one. In some instances, a preliminary email may constitute a binding contract regardless of it referencing a future formal agreement that has yet to be agreed to. Beware of creating an “implied-in-fact” contract, which may occur through industry custom and your conduct. Beware of using certain terms unless you intend their meaning. If certain conditions are desired before entering into a contract, state them clearly. Do not create the impression of a meeting of the minds if that is not the intent.
        mr_toad 4y ago
        It’s not wise to make assumptions about how the law works when there’s money on the table.
  - sdenton4 4y ago
    "and on acceptance a contract is created..." So... they never made a contract? Negotiation can certainly still fall apart in the 'make a contract' phase.
  - hedora 4y ago
    Contracts are generally signed by both parties. Up until the contract is signed, either party can back out.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      Only under certain scenarios do contracts have to be written, never mind signed. Very often, handshake or verbal contracts are perfectly enforceable.
    - site-packages1 4y ago
      The Statute of Frauds sets the limit over which a contract has to be in writing, and other things. Not all contracts have to be in writing. Additionally, while contracts are generally signed by both parties, it actually, when a written/signed contract is required, only needs to be signed by the party against whom a remedy is being sought. If agree to sell me your bicycle in a written contract for $1,500 and you sign it and I pay, that contract doesn't need my signature for me to seek a legal remedy against you in the event you don't deliver the bicycle.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    In real estate, it's common for a house to be listed at one price, but the seller will turn down offers at that price because it's reasonable to expect bids 10-30% higher than the listing. There's no contract until both parties agree.
    - gene91 4y ago
      Where I live (California), counter offer in real estate implies acceptance. Technically, the seller signs an acceptance with extra condition that the buyer accepts a higher price of $Y in X hours. The seller could do “multiple counter” offer instead, if they don’t want to imply acceptance.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      In many/most common law jurisdictions, there is a statute of frauds or similar rule that requires that contracts that purport to transfer interest in land must be written and signed by the parties in order for a contract to be formed. It's a bad idea to extrapolate from the special case to the general.
      - klyrs 4y ago
        Honestly I've had the same thing happen with a used car on Craigslist. Guy had an emotional attachment and changed his mind when I showed up with the cash. In the absence of legislation, courts look to similar cases. Individuals selling houses & cars is more similar to this case than grocery stores advertising prices for commodities, to me.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  Jump: we would like to buy your domain. Dick: I would sell it for $50,000 firm. this is prima facie the offer Jump: sounds good to us; done. this is the acceptance There's no notion in the law of contract that each party has to "accept". The law requires offer and acceptance - one party offers, the other accepts. N.B. I write that Dick's message is prima facie an offer as there might well be other problems with it
  - arcticbull 4y ago
    Ok say you go into an antique store. You see a vase you like. You ask the shopkeeper "hey how much for that vase?" and they say "it's a firm $50,000." You have not paid yet. The seller goes back and realizes that the sticker price was wrong, or that it was the owner's special vase, or that they don't actually really want to sell it. Can you sue at this point? I'd wager not. There are certain jurisdictions where public advertisement of prices must be honored, assuming stock and conditions are met - but this is not one of those cases. Even airlines are no longer actually required to honor mistake fares after they collect money from the passenger in spite of 14 CFR 399.88(a) [1] Asking how much something costs and getting a quote doesn't entitle you then to make that purchase unilaterally, even if you get a counterproposal. Otherwise any time a website bugs out and displays an incorrect price you could just sue them lol. At no point did Jump obtain a binding option to purchase. Generally to force the seller's hand, they must have already accepted the money or signed something indicating that they will sell. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      You're mixing a whole lot of things together here; none of which actually relate to this case. e.g. sticker prices are generally not offers; they're usually construed as "invitations to treat"; in cases involving sale of goods by merchants, the Uniform Commercial Code requires contracts for sales over $500 to be written; you've added a complex agency problem where an employee may be exceeding their delegated authority to sell goods on behalf of the employer; you've introduced an element of unilateral mistake where the selling party may be able to rescind the contract if the buyer had some reason to know the price was wrong Let's take all those out of the equation. If you're a salesperson in a shop, and I ask "how much for that vase?", and you say "$100", and I say "I'll buy that vase for $100." then that looks like a contract. It's the acceptance that creates the contract; not payment. N.B. Cancelation of a mistake fare has nothing to do with a post-sale price increase; because a contract that involves a mistake is rescinded, meaning that it is no longer recognized as binding - the airlines are not asking people to pay more in the context of an existing contract. The doctrine of mistake doesn't apply to the case where you intended to sell for a particular price then realized it was a bad deal for you.
itsTyrion 4y ago
Dafuq is IANAL.
- rendall 4y ago
- rosndo 4y ago

car_analogy 4y ago

But only one party performed "acceptance". Why should negotiating a price mean that the standard for accepting an offer is lowered?

site-packages1 4y ago
I don't think I quite understand. In traditional contract flow, taking out unrelated things: one person presents an offer, the other person accepts that offer, and on acceptance a contract is created. It doesn't then go back to the offeror to accept the acceptance. I may be misunderstanding you.
- akvadrako 4y ago
  Of course it does. I say: I will sell you my house for $1. If you accept, I'm under no obligation to actually sell it.
  - Ferrotin 4y ago
    Real estate by law has to be done in writing.
  - tempnow987 4y ago
    If you put this in writing, and they accept, that is offer and acceptance. This is done all the time by the way with houses. Someone puts an offer out to the seller, they accept, that's it, you are under contract. Alternatively, sellers can offer or counter offer to buyers. In this case sellers will say, here is my offer, when buyer accepts, you are under contract. Same thing with engagement letters for professional services. Signed proposed engagement letter presented to buyer (usually with an expiration and a few outs), buyer accepts, now you have a contract.
    - akvadrako 4y ago
      It is in writing; wtf do you mean?
    - car_analogy 4y ago
      There's offers and then there's binding offers - I assume it must be made very clear if an offer is binding before it is legally treated as such.
      - tempnow987 4y ago
        This is entirely false. There's been plenty of litigation in this area. If you offer $230K, the other party accepts, then you are done. You can sometimes rescind before acceptance. Email Contract Safety Tips Since the validity of email contracts is generally accepted under the law, it is important to exercise caution when doing business through email. To that end, the following tips may be helpful: A contract need not be physically signed to be agreed to. A contract may be created over a series of emails, not just one. In some instances, a preliminary email may constitute a binding contract regardless of it referencing a future formal agreement that has yet to be agreed to. Beware of creating an “implied-in-fact” contract, which may occur through industry custom and your conduct. Beware of using certain terms unless you intend their meaning. If certain conditions are desired before entering into a contract, state them clearly. Do not create the impression of a meeting of the minds if that is not the intent.
      - mr_toad 4y ago
        It’s not wise to make assumptions about how the law works when there’s money on the table.
- sdenton4 4y ago
  "and on acceptance a contract is created..." So... they never made a contract? Negotiation can certainly still fall apart in the 'make a contract' phase.
- hedora 4y ago
  Contracts are generally signed by both parties. Up until the contract is signed, either party can back out.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    Only under certain scenarios do contracts have to be written, never mind signed. Very often, handshake or verbal contracts are perfectly enforceable.
  - site-packages1 4y ago
    The Statute of Frauds sets the limit over which a contract has to be in writing, and other things. Not all contracts have to be in writing. Additionally, while contracts are generally signed by both parties, it actually, when a written/signed contract is required, only needs to be signed by the party against whom a remedy is being sought. If agree to sell me your bicycle in a written contract for $1,500 and you sign it and I pay, that contract doesn't need my signature for me to seek a legal remedy against you in the event you don't deliver the bicycle.
- klyrs 4y ago
  In real estate, it's common for a house to be listed at one price, but the seller will turn down offers at that price because it's reasonable to expect bids 10-30% higher than the listing. There's no contract until both parties agree.
  - gene91 4y ago
    Where I live (California), counter offer in real estate implies acceptance. Technically, the seller signs an acceptance with extra condition that the buyer accepts a higher price of $Y in X hours. The seller could do “multiple counter” offer instead, if they don’t want to imply acceptance.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    In many/most common law jurisdictions, there is a statute of frauds or similar rule that requires that contracts that purport to transfer interest in land must be written and signed by the parties in order for a contract to be formed. It's a bad idea to extrapolate from the special case to the general.
    - klyrs 4y ago
      Honestly I've had the same thing happen with a used car on Craigslist. Guy had an emotional attachment and changed his mind when I showed up with the cash. In the absence of legislation, courts look to similar cases. Individuals selling houses & cars is more similar to this case than grocery stores advertising prices for commodities, to me.
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
Jump: we would like to buy your domain. Dick: I would sell it for $50,000 firm. this is prima facie the offer Jump: sounds good to us; done. this is the acceptance There's no notion in the law of contract that each party has to "accept". The law requires offer and acceptance - one party offers, the other accepts. N.B. I write that Dick's message is prima facie an offer as there might well be other problems with it
- arcticbull 4y ago
  Ok say you go into an antique store. You see a vase you like. You ask the shopkeeper "hey how much for that vase?" and they say "it's a firm $50,000." You have not paid yet. The seller goes back and realizes that the sticker price was wrong, or that it was the owner's special vase, or that they don't actually really want to sell it. Can you sue at this point? I'd wager not. There are certain jurisdictions where public advertisement of prices must be honored, assuming stock and conditions are met - but this is not one of those cases. Even airlines are no longer actually required to honor mistake fares after they collect money from the passenger in spite of 14 CFR 399.88(a) [1] Asking how much something costs and getting a quote doesn't entitle you then to make that purchase unilaterally, even if you get a counterproposal. Otherwise any time a website bugs out and displays an incorrect price you could just sue them lol. At no point did Jump obtain a binding option to purchase. Generally to force the seller's hand, they must have already accepted the money or signed something indicating that they will sell. [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/399.88
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    You're mixing a whole lot of things together here; none of which actually relate to this case. e.g. sticker prices are generally not offers; they're usually construed as "invitations to treat"; in cases involving sale of goods by merchants, the Uniform Commercial Code requires contracts for sales over $500 to be written; you've added a complex agency problem where an employee may be exceeding their delegated authority to sell goods on behalf of the employer; you've introduced an element of unilateral mistake where the selling party may be able to rescind the contract if the buyer had some reason to know the price was wrong Let's take all those out of the equation. If you're a salesperson in a shop, and I ask "how much for that vase?", and you say "$100", and I say "I'll buy that vase for $100." then that looks like a contract. It's the acceptance that creates the contract; not payment. N.B. Cancelation of a mistake fare has nothing to do with a post-sale price increase; because a contract that involves a mistake is rescinded, meaning that it is no longer recognized as binding - the airlines are not asking people to pay more in the context of an existing contract. The doctrine of mistake doesn't apply to the case where you intended to sell for a particular price then realized it was a bad deal for you.

itsTyrion 4y ago

Dafuq is IANAL.

rendall 4y ago
rosndo 4y ago