6 ms·

Well, the race to attract the outflow of the current Russian 'brain drain' is definitely on. If the US is able to attract the majority of that (as it most like

by mdb31 4y ago

Well, the race to attract the outflow of the current Russian 'brain drain' is definitely on. If the US is able to attract the majority of that (as it most likely will), while keeping out the Putin-aligned plants and/or otherwise mentally deficient factions (which remains to be seen), that will definitely be huge gain for them.

HarryHirsch 4y ago
If the US is able to attract the majority of that (as it most likely will) That remains to be seen. There is a huge undercurrent of Russophobia, and potential takers will have observed the FBI-led harassment of Chinese scientists (not too long ago a Tennessee jury refused to convict a Chinese national on account of the threadbare evidence), already these factors would make anyone coming from an enemy country hesitant. Combine that with funding and employment issues in the physical and life sciences - anyone young and ambitious would be well advised to settle in China instead.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  Or at least some cosmopolitain eastern locality such as Dubai; the one which would naturally meet the 'unprecedented invasion of an independent nation' accusations with a lot of laughs. Having said that, I can imagine that there would be (already is a) proxy brain drain from Russia to Dubai but catering to the Western customers.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    Dubai is a stationary Potemkin village. There is nothing there for technical people to do outside of ill-conceived construction projects for princelings.
- beebmam 4y ago
  In the workplaces that Russian scientists and engineers will go in western countries, like software/pharma/bio/academia/etc, it's highly unlikely there will be virtually any ethnic hate. I've never once seen it in the places I've worked; we are all quite accustomed to diverse colleagues and most of us celebrate that. I personally wouldn't count on China, an ethno-nationalist country that does not offer a pathway for naturalization for people who are not Chinese-passing, to provide a safe place for me or my family to reside. Not to mention the enormous scale of abuse of power the current Chinese government is engaging in.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    As a brown guy I'd prefer my odds in the reddest county in Mississippi than anywhere in Asia (other than my own ethnostate).
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  >There is a huge undercurrent of Russophobia Where? The highly skilled Russians part of the brain drain will most likely go to big cities, full of high earning and/or well educated people, not in hick towns full of xenofobic loonies. Russians brain drain to the US is not something new, but has been going on for several decades and it seems to have worked fine for them.
  - newfriend 4y ago
    You don't seem to be up to date on current events. The Russiaphobes are the well educated (but not necessarily high earning) people in big cities. It's the hip new thing to proudly broadcast your support for heroic Ukrainians and your disdain for evil nazi Russians.
    - johnny22 4y ago
      Would be nice to see the source on this one. Make sure that source shows that this hatred/dislike is against regular russian citizens and not the russian government. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who are against regular russians, but I want evidence that it's some sort of major concern.
      - orcheztra 4y ago
      - newfriend 4y ago
        Meanwhile, no source required for "hick towns full of xenofobic [sic] loonies". Anyway, take a look at reddit, which is full of highly-educated baristas from large American cities. A common sentiment is that the "average Russian citizen" should be out protesting, and that if they aren't, then they support the evil nazi leadership.
    - para_parolu 4y ago
      This is totally opposite to my experience. I’m Russian living in bay area and people often ask how my family back at home. I never had even a slight negativity towards me based on nationality.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  > observed the FBI-led harassment of Chinese scientists give me a break - chinese students with USA sponsorship write reports back to their sponsors, and some of them do grab data and code, by the thousands.. I have seen it on networks and I believe in person at University.. one line about alleged harassment is equivalent to nothing without that context
  - HarryHirsch 4y ago
    Reports from Chinese graduate students to their sponsors - of course they would report to their funding agency, any funding agency will insist on progress reports. There's no need to elevate that to some sort of conspiracy straight of Our Man in Havana, complete with atomic vacuum cleaners. Right now the federales are coming after a mathematician from Southern Illinois University: https://www.science.org/content/article/trial-mathematician-next-test-u-s-prosecution-academics-under-china-initiative https://www.science.org/content/article/trial-mathematician-... Dude is interested in control theory and had a joint appointment at two Chinese universities. You do ask - what does the government hope to achieve?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CircleSpokes 4y ago
It also has to do with keeping that brainpower from going to other potential problem nations. There is a reason the US basically paid former Soviet rocket and nuclear engineers after the fall of the USSR.
adtechcomment1 4y ago
My employer is based in Warsaw, Poland with offices in Ukraine, Russia, and many other countries. A day or two after the invasion they sent a company wide email saying they will pay for and coordinate moving, transit, housing, food, etc for anyone and their family in Russia, Ukraine, or the surrounding countries. About a week later they shut down operations in Russia. Though not confirmed we were told a not insignificant portion of Russian employees fled to Poland and still work my employer. I doubt this occurred at very many places, but anecdotally Poland gained a meaningful number of highly skilled tech workers. I haven't worked with any of the Russians, but many of my Polish counterparts hold the belief that the US is largely responsible for the invasion of Ukraine. I will be very interested to see immigration numbers of where Russians end up.
- throw93232 4y ago
  Poland and surrounding countries no longer give or extend visas to Russians. My guess people who came were from Ukraine.
  - FpUser 4y ago
    So they want people to go back and work for Putin? Smart move.
formvoltron 4y ago
"gain for them".. which side does your "them" refer to? because I could see gains for both US and Putin. US obviously gains with more smart people here working for the US and paying taxes. Putin gains because he remove smart people from Russia, making it easier to keep hold on power.
robonerd 4y ago
> while keeping out the Putin-aligned plants America doesn't need political purity tests, let them all come. If the concern is espionage, that's the FBI's concern to worry about. If the concern is them sending money back to Russia, simply forbid that. If the concern is their influence on American politics.. well that's a non-issue because native born Americans sympathetic to Putin far outnumber all the PhDs in Russia. And besides, American society can and should be able to tolerate dissent. A small number of wackos are outnumbered by reasonable people and aren't a realistic threat to the system.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  > sending money back to Russia, simply forbid that. hmm - working people usually send money to those that need it, whatever the language spoken...
  - robonerd 4y ago
    There are presently sanctions forbidding it, are there not? Those sanctions are what I'm referring to. Language has nothing to do with it.
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      People will not emigrate if it means leaving relatives and family behind. That's why you saw so little emigration from the USSR - once they're out they were completely shut off.

by mdb31 4y ago

HarryHirsch 4y ago

If the US is able to attract the majority of that (as it most likely will) That remains to be seen. There is a huge undercurrent of Russophobia, and potential takers will have observed the FBI-led harassment of Chinese scientists (not too long ago a Tennessee jury refused to convict a Chinese national on account of the threadbare evidence), already these factors would make anyone coming from an enemy country hesitant. Combine that with funding and employment issues in the physical and life sciences - anyone young and ambitious would be well advised to settle in China instead.

thriftwy 4y ago
Or at least some cosmopolitain eastern locality such as Dubai; the one which would naturally meet the 'unprecedented invasion of an independent nation' accusations with a lot of laughs. Having said that, I can imagine that there would be (already is a) proxy brain drain from Russia to Dubai but catering to the Western customers.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  Dubai is a stationary Potemkin village. There is nothing there for technical people to do outside of ill-conceived construction projects for princelings.
beebmam 4y ago
In the workplaces that Russian scientists and engineers will go in western countries, like software/pharma/bio/academia/etc, it's highly unlikely there will be virtually any ethnic hate. I've never once seen it in the places I've worked; we are all quite accustomed to diverse colleagues and most of us celebrate that. I personally wouldn't count on China, an ethno-nationalist country that does not offer a pathway for naturalization for people who are not Chinese-passing, to provide a safe place for me or my family to reside. Not to mention the enormous scale of abuse of power the current Chinese government is engaging in.
- rayiner 4y ago
  As a brown guy I'd prefer my odds in the reddest county in Mississippi than anywhere in Asia (other than my own ethnostate).
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ChuckNorris89 4y ago
>There is a huge undercurrent of Russophobia Where? The highly skilled Russians part of the brain drain will most likely go to big cities, full of high earning and/or well educated people, not in hick towns full of xenofobic loonies. Russians brain drain to the US is not something new, but has been going on for several decades and it seems to have worked fine for them.
- newfriend 4y ago
  You don't seem to be up to date on current events. The Russiaphobes are the well educated (but not necessarily high earning) people in big cities. It's the hip new thing to proudly broadcast your support for heroic Ukrainians and your disdain for evil nazi Russians.
  - johnny22 4y ago
    Would be nice to see the source on this one. Make sure that source shows that this hatred/dislike is against regular russian citizens and not the russian government. I'm sure there are plenty of folks who are against regular russians, but I want evidence that it's some sort of major concern.
    - orcheztra 4y ago
    - newfriend 4y ago
      Meanwhile, no source required for "hick towns full of xenofobic [sic] loonies". Anyway, take a look at reddit, which is full of highly-educated baristas from large American cities. A common sentiment is that the "average Russian citizen" should be out protesting, and that if they aren't, then they support the evil nazi leadership.
  - para_parolu 4y ago
    This is totally opposite to my experience. I’m Russian living in bay area and people often ask how my family back at home. I never had even a slight negativity towards me based on nationality.
mistrial9 4y ago
> observed the FBI-led harassment of Chinese scientists give me a break - chinese students with USA sponsorship write reports back to their sponsors, and some of them do grab data and code, by the thousands.. I have seen it on networks and I believe in person at University.. one line about alleged harassment is equivalent to nothing without that context
- HarryHirsch 4y ago
  Reports from Chinese graduate students to their sponsors - of course they would report to their funding agency, any funding agency will insist on progress reports. There's no need to elevate that to some sort of conspiracy straight of Our Man in Havana, complete with atomic vacuum cleaners. Right now the federales are coming after a mathematician from Southern Illinois University: https://www.science.org/content/article/trial-mathematician-next-test-u-s-prosecution-academics-under-china-initiative https://www.science.org/content/article/trial-mathematician-... Dude is interested in control theory and had a joint appointment at two Chinese universities. You do ask - what does the government hope to achieve?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

CircleSpokes 4y ago

It also has to do with keeping that brainpower from going to other potential problem nations. There is a reason the US basically paid former Soviet rocket and nuclear engineers after the fall of the USSR.

adtechcomment1 4y ago

My employer is based in Warsaw, Poland with offices in Ukraine, Russia, and many other countries. A day or two after the invasion they sent a company wide email saying they will pay for and coordinate moving, transit, housing, food, etc for anyone and their family in Russia, Ukraine, or the surrounding countries. About a week later they shut down operations in Russia. Though not confirmed we were told a not insignificant portion of Russian employees fled to Poland and still work my employer. I doubt this occurred at very many places, but anecdotally Poland gained a meaningful number of highly skilled tech workers. I haven't worked with any of the Russians, but many of my Polish counterparts hold the belief that the US is largely responsible for the invasion of Ukraine. I will be very interested to see immigration numbers of where Russians end up.

throw93232 4y ago
Poland and surrounding countries no longer give or extend visas to Russians. My guess people who came were from Ukraine.
- FpUser 4y ago
  So they want people to go back and work for Putin? Smart move.

formvoltron 4y ago

"gain for them".. which side does your "them" refer to? because I could see gains for both US and Putin. US obviously gains with more smart people here working for the US and paying taxes. Putin gains because he remove smart people from Russia, making it easier to keep hold on power.

robonerd 4y ago

> while keeping out the Putin-aligned plants America doesn't need political purity tests, let them all come. If the concern is espionage, that's the FBI's concern to worry about. If the concern is them sending money back to Russia, simply forbid that. If the concern is their influence on American politics.. well that's a non-issue because native born Americans sympathetic to Putin far outnumber all the PhDs in Russia. And besides, American society can and should be able to tolerate dissent. A small number of wackos are outnumbered by reasonable people and aren't a realistic threat to the system.

mistrial9 4y ago
> sending money back to Russia, simply forbid that. hmm - working people usually send money to those that need it, whatever the language spoken...
- robonerd 4y ago
  There are presently sanctions forbidding it, are there not? Those sanctions are what I'm referring to. Language has nothing to do with it.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    People will not emigrate if it means leaving relatives and family behind. That's why you saw so little emigration from the USSR - once they're out they were completely shut off.