4 ms·

Good idea, but a lot of these feel like saying the professional way of telling someone to eat shit and die is “consume fecal matter and perish in an inferno”.

lolinder 4y ago
Yes. The difference between acting professionally and not is usually in what you choose to say, not how you choose to say it. Dressing up an unprofessional comment in bigger words doesn't make the comment more professional, just more pretentious. There are some here that are okay, but a lot just shouldn't be said (like "I told you so").
- ramesh31 4y ago
  This. The worst sin is the "I'm not saying X, but... (then proceeds describe a euphemized form of X)". Mentioning that you are not mentioning something is the most blatant form of passive aggression, and it's entirely counterproductive.
- Deltion 4y ago
  I'm not sure why I should not. If I told someone something and they ignore it, potentially even multiple times why should I not say it?
  - grzm 4y ago
    What’s the likely outcome of doing so?* Why are you saying it? To show you were right? To make them feel stupid for not listening to you? How will you feel afterwards? How will they feel? How will that likely affect your interactions with them in the future? Maybe you're fine with the likely outcome. But maybe not. * And there’s a distinction between what’s likely to happen and what you think should happen. They’re not always the same thing.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    It adds little value and is annoying to hear. If you make a prediction correctly, and it is ignored, then that's an indication that you should either make it more assertively next time, or you just can't work with this person. And anyway, some humbleness is due -- sometimes we think we've given good advice, but it ends up being somehow inapplicable to the problem for reasons that are outside our scope.
    - jimkleiber 4y ago
      Maybe therein lies the rub (a fun idiom): if one wants to say "I told you so", or whichever variant to say "I was right", then one should also say "I did not tell you so", or the "I was wrong" when that person made an incorrect prediction :-D
  - morelisp 4y ago
    There's nothing to gain from saying it to a coworker. You should: - Remind them next time it's relevant - "Remember last time we touched this service and the Widget crashed and took the rest of switch down with it? I think this could be similar and we should reconsider my plan to isolate the network before hand." - Mention it to your manager. Failing to heed a warning can be blameless and rational, but if you're consistently right when others aren't that's a sign you should have more formal influence (and responsibility). You won't get that by complaining to peers. - If it was extremely serious (it rarely is - the really bad stuff is usually stuff no one foresaw) and your concerns dismissed out-of-hand (also rarely the case - people legitimately have different priorities), discuss it with your/their manager. You can also of course do it if there is no other escalation path - CEOs and EMs ideally didn't get where they are by being unable to take criticism - but you should also be very sure your advice really was right, and not a stopped clock.
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    Because you should think about the effectiveness of your communication, not on proving that you were ‘right’.
rgoulter 4y ago
The concept I'm reminded of is the related "meta-message". OP's site adjusts the register to something more polite. The confrontational statements are still confrontational when phrased more politely.
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
Yes; that's correct. There's a change of language register to "corporate workplace" but no change of meaning or intent. I can still tell you're being an asshole even if you write in business English, so can others who read it, and no-one is giving bonus marks for "professionalism".
- MrJohz 4y ago
  It's like the old gag where someone uses a thesaurus on every word in their letter to make it sound cleverer, but just ends up demonstrating their own lack of knowledge. I've worked in the UK and in Germany. In the UK there's much more of a tendency to use roundabout phrases to get across what you mean, much like many of this site's suggestions. In Germany, people tend to be more abrupt. Both registers can be just as kind and supportive, and just as cutting and destructive. But either way, there's no magic politeness spell you can cast that stops you from appearing to be, like the parent commenter says, an asshole.
deleted 4y ago
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mattbee 4y ago
Ha, they remind me of the phrases in the "hidden insults" section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_for_All_Occasions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_for_All_Occasions LATIN: Stercorem pro cerebro habes. WHAT YOU SAY IT MEANS: That's certainly food for thought. WHAT IT REALLY MEANS: You have shit for brains.
yowzadave 4y ago
Exactly--many of these are hostile sentiments; it would be a mistake to assume that re-wording them will lead to a better outcome, as most people will (correctly) perceive the hostile intent in spite of the re-wording. A more useful list would perhaps be, "How to _not_ say", which could guide you through a way of successfully resolving the conflict when you find yourself wanting to express one of the listed sentiments.

lolinder 4y ago

Yes. The difference between acting professionally and not is usually in what you choose to say, not how you choose to say it. Dressing up an unprofessional comment in bigger words doesn't make the comment more professional, just more pretentious. There are some here that are okay, but a lot just shouldn't be said (like "I told you so").

ramesh31 4y ago
This. The worst sin is the "I'm not saying X, but... (then proceeds describe a euphemized form of X)". Mentioning that you are not mentioning something is the most blatant form of passive aggression, and it's entirely counterproductive.
Deltion 4y ago
I'm not sure why I should not. If I told someone something and they ignore it, potentially even multiple times why should I not say it?
- grzm 4y ago
  What’s the likely outcome of doing so?* Why are you saying it? To show you were right? To make them feel stupid for not listening to you? How will you feel afterwards? How will they feel? How will that likely affect your interactions with them in the future? Maybe you're fine with the likely outcome. But maybe not. * And there’s a distinction between what’s likely to happen and what you think should happen. They’re not always the same thing.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  It adds little value and is annoying to hear. If you make a prediction correctly, and it is ignored, then that's an indication that you should either make it more assertively next time, or you just can't work with this person. And anyway, some humbleness is due -- sometimes we think we've given good advice, but it ends up being somehow inapplicable to the problem for reasons that are outside our scope.
  - jimkleiber 4y ago
    Maybe therein lies the rub (a fun idiom): if one wants to say "I told you so", or whichever variant to say "I was right", then one should also say "I did not tell you so", or the "I was wrong" when that person made an incorrect prediction :-D
- morelisp 4y ago
  There's nothing to gain from saying it to a coworker. You should: - Remind them next time it's relevant - "Remember last time we touched this service and the Widget crashed and took the rest of switch down with it? I think this could be similar and we should reconsider my plan to isolate the network before hand." - Mention it to your manager. Failing to heed a warning can be blameless and rational, but if you're consistently right when others aren't that's a sign you should have more formal influence (and responsibility). You won't get that by complaining to peers. - If it was extremely serious (it rarely is - the really bad stuff is usually stuff no one foresaw) and your concerns dismissed out-of-hand (also rarely the case - people legitimately have different priorities), discuss it with your/their manager. You can also of course do it if there is no other escalation path - CEOs and EMs ideally didn't get where they are by being unable to take criticism - but you should also be very sure your advice really was right, and not a stopped clock.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  Because you should think about the effectiveness of your communication, not on proving that you were ‘right’.

rgoulter 4y ago

The concept I'm reminded of is the related "meta-message". OP's site adjusts the register to something more polite. The confrontational statements are still confrontational when phrased more politely.

NovemberWhiskey 4y ago

Yes; that's correct. There's a change of language register to "corporate workplace" but no change of meaning or intent. I can still tell you're being an asshole even if you write in business English, so can others who read it, and no-one is giving bonus marks for "professionalism".

MrJohz 4y ago
It's like the old gag where someone uses a thesaurus on every word in their letter to make it sound cleverer, but just ends up demonstrating their own lack of knowledge. I've worked in the UK and in Germany. In the UK there's much more of a tendency to use roundabout phrases to get across what you mean, much like many of this site's suggestions. In Germany, people tend to be more abrupt. Both registers can be just as kind and supportive, and just as cutting and destructive. But either way, there's no magic politeness spell you can cast that stops you from appearing to be, like the parent commenter says, an asshole.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mattbee 4y ago

Ha, they remind me of the phrases in the "hidden insults" section of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_for_All_Occasions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_for_All_Occasions LATIN: Stercorem pro cerebro habes. WHAT YOU SAY IT MEANS: That's certainly food for thought. WHAT IT REALLY MEANS: You have shit for brains.

yowzadave 4y ago

Exactly--many of these are hostile sentiments; it would be a mistake to assume that re-wording them will lead to a better outcome, as most people will (correctly) perceive the hostile intent in spite of the re-wording. A more useful list would perhaps be, "How to _not_ say", which could guide you through a way of successfully resolving the conflict when you find yourself wanting to express one of the listed sentiments.