4 ms·

Not necessarily, if you're implying that cats predate birds efficiently. Cats are fairly lax, in a manner of speaking, in catching birds. Mice, voles, gophers,

Not necessarily, if you're implying that cats predate birds efficiently. Cats are fairly lax, in a manner of speaking, in catching birds. Mice, voles, gophers, and rabbits are easier to catch and more plentiful. We'll see them catch maybe one bird a month. In contrast, the number of birds in our area is innumerable. We'll get hundreds at our feeders every day, and see dozens of songbirds (Robins, Atarlings, Red Winged Blackbirds, Magpies, Woodpeckers, Pigeons, etc.) while driving into town. And that's without getting in the raptors (some of whom are a threat to cats). I imagine humanity's reduction of bird's habitats has a bigger impact than the carnivores we bring with us.

reaperducer 5y ago
the number of birds in our area is innumerable You are very lucky. The last place I lived, the birds almost all disappeared over the course of about five years. When i first moved there, I couldn't sleep past 5:30am because of the raucous dawn chorus. There were always birds around, and i had several feeders for them all. By the time I moved away, the chorus was one bird. Maybe. And the feeders never got used. From what I read on the internet, this is becoming more and more common.
- marcinzm 5y ago
  Is that due to cats or the drop in insect populations which many birds feed on?
  - vwcx 5y ago
    Insects, but the cats don't help.
- d4mi3n 5y ago
  Domestic cats are VERY successful hunters in general, with the highest success rates of all animals in that kingdom. That said, I don’t know what success looks like over different kinds of prey. Over the last year or so we’ve also had a pretty bad outbreak of avian flu which has done a lot to depress bird populations—though my understanding is it has been mainly farmed chickens and turkeys that have been hard hit.
  - shagie 5y ago
    That title is held by the black footed cat - https://www.livescience.com/63992-deadliest-cat.html https://www.livescience.com/63992-deadliest-cat.html > In one night, a black-footed cat kills between 10 and 14 rodents or small birds, averaging a kill about every 50 minutes, according to Hunter. With a 60 percent success rate, black-footed cats are about three times as successful as lions, which average a successful kill about 20 to 25 percent of the time, Hunter said. Compare with the domestic house cat - https://doi.org/10.1111/acv.12563 https://doi.org/10.1111/acv.12563 > Owners reported that their pets killed an average of 3.5 prey items/month, leading to an estimated ecological impact per cat of 14.2-38.9 prey ha^−1 yr^−1. This is similar or higher than the per-animal ecological impact of wild carnivores but the effect is amplified by the high density of cats in neighborhoods. As a result, pet cats around the world have an ecological impact greater than native predators but concentrated within ~100 m of their homes. Related... https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 > We estimate that cats in the contiguous United States annually kill between 1.3 and 4.0 billion birds (median=2.4 billion) (Fig. 1a), with ∼69% of this mortality caused by un-owned cats. The predation estimate for un-owned cats was higher primarily due to predation rates by this group averaging three times greater than rates for owned cats.
    - jhugo 5y ago
      > Owners reported that their pets killed an average of 3.5 prey items/month I think owners would not be aware of a lot of a cat's hunting activity if it has access to the outdoors.
      - falcolas 5y ago
        On the contrary, outdoor cats love to bring their meals indoors. Partially because it's a safe place to eat it, and also because they try and give it to their owners first (who are obviously terrible hunters, since they've yet to catch a single mouse).
        msrenee 5y ago
- RajT88 5y ago
  I live by a river. There is such a thriving bird population these days thanks to improving regulations on dumping in the river, I am pretty sure cats are prey. There is a massive red tailed hawk population. And a moderate Bald Eagle population. Hell, we have started getting Pelicans the last few years, and I simply would not put it past them to swallow a moderate sized mammal. The Canada Geese and turkeys would win in a fight any day. It is anecdotal, but it seems to me as waterways become less polluted, you are starting to see these sorts of animals return to even dense urban areas like Chicago.
  - Spooky23 5y ago
    Nobody is talking about Canada geese. Cats eviscerate songbirds and other small birds. My son and I are actually gathering data of bird populations in our immediate area. We live in an urban area where half the block consists of 2-3 family apartments. Our yard is a bird highway due to where our home is placed and the trees. The tenants tend to migrate in cohorts. We noticed anecdotally that the bird population grew a year after a few key neighbors, who kept outdoor cats and were cat people who fed strays, moved away. It’s a difficult issue as like many things, extreme behavior drives extreme outcomes. I’d like to understand the impact of house cats vs mentally ill people who attract feral cats. (Or similar folks who attract disruptive populations of birds like pigeons)
t-3 5y ago
Based on your birdlist, it sounds like we live in the same region, and I agree. The birds are all very social and will quickly mob an aggressive cat if the lookouts don't warn everyone in time.

reaperducer 5y ago

the number of birds in our area is innumerable You are very lucky. The last place I lived, the birds almost all disappeared over the course of about five years. When i first moved there, I couldn't sleep past 5:30am because of the raucous dawn chorus. There were always birds around, and i had several feeders for them all. By the time I moved away, the chorus was one bird. Maybe. And the feeders never got used. From what I read on the internet, this is becoming more and more common.

marcinzm 5y ago
Is that due to cats or the drop in insect populations which many birds feed on?
- vwcx 5y ago
  Insects, but the cats don't help.
d4mi3n 5y ago
Domestic cats are VERY successful hunters in general, with the highest success rates of all animals in that kingdom. That said, I don’t know what success looks like over different kinds of prey. Over the last year or so we’ve also had a pretty bad outbreak of avian flu which has done a lot to depress bird populations—though my understanding is it has been mainly farmed chickens and turkeys that have been hard hit.
- shagie 5y ago
  That title is held by the black footed cat - https://www.livescience.com/63992-deadliest-cat.html https://www.livescience.com/63992-deadliest-cat.html > In one night, a black-footed cat kills between 10 and 14 rodents or small birds, averaging a kill about every 50 minutes, according to Hunter. With a 60 percent success rate, black-footed cats are about three times as successful as lions, which average a successful kill about 20 to 25 percent of the time, Hunter said. Compare with the domestic house cat - https://doi.org/10.1111/acv.12563 https://doi.org/10.1111/acv.12563 > Owners reported that their pets killed an average of 3.5 prey items/month, leading to an estimated ecological impact per cat of 14.2-38.9 prey ha^−1 yr^−1. This is similar or higher than the per-animal ecological impact of wild carnivores but the effect is amplified by the high density of cats in neighborhoods. As a result, pet cats around the world have an ecological impact greater than native predators but concentrated within ~100 m of their homes. Related... https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 > We estimate that cats in the contiguous United States annually kill between 1.3 and 4.0 billion birds (median=2.4 billion) (Fig. 1a), with ∼69% of this mortality caused by un-owned cats. The predation estimate for un-owned cats was higher primarily due to predation rates by this group averaging three times greater than rates for owned cats.
  - jhugo 5y ago
    > Owners reported that their pets killed an average of 3.5 prey items/month I think owners would not be aware of a lot of a cat's hunting activity if it has access to the outdoors.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      On the contrary, outdoor cats love to bring their meals indoors. Partially because it's a safe place to eat it, and also because they try and give it to their owners first (who are obviously terrible hunters, since they've yet to catch a single mouse).
      - msrenee 5y ago
RajT88 5y ago
I live by a river. There is such a thriving bird population these days thanks to improving regulations on dumping in the river, I am pretty sure cats are prey. There is a massive red tailed hawk population. And a moderate Bald Eagle population. Hell, we have started getting Pelicans the last few years, and I simply would not put it past them to swallow a moderate sized mammal. The Canada Geese and turkeys would win in a fight any day. It is anecdotal, but it seems to me as waterways become less polluted, you are starting to see these sorts of animals return to even dense urban areas like Chicago.
- Spooky23 5y ago
  Nobody is talking about Canada geese. Cats eviscerate songbirds and other small birds. My son and I are actually gathering data of bird populations in our immediate area. We live in an urban area where half the block consists of 2-3 family apartments. Our yard is a bird highway due to where our home is placed and the trees. The tenants tend to migrate in cohorts. We noticed anecdotally that the bird population grew a year after a few key neighbors, who kept outdoor cats and were cat people who fed strays, moved away. It’s a difficult issue as like many things, extreme behavior drives extreme outcomes. I’d like to understand the impact of house cats vs mentally ill people who attract feral cats. (Or similar folks who attract disruptive populations of birds like pigeons)

t-3 5y ago

Based on your birdlist, it sounds like we live in the same region, and I agree. The birds are all very social and will quickly mob an aggressive cat if the lookouts don't warn everyone in time.