4 ms·

I am normally not a big fan of government as a private business.. However USPS and Amtrek NEED to be run more like a business. The fact they have not been for

by syshum 4y ago

I am normally not a big fan of government as a private business.. However USPS and Amtrek NEED to be run more like a business. The fact they have not been for decades is part of the problem with the services. If we are talking something like the police, or fire or something like that I would agree that is dangerous to run those services like a business. I however do not put USPS on the same leave as police and fire. they ship envelopes and packages from one location to another, that is a business and it should be run like one

warning26 4y ago
In what way is it not run like one? Amtrak has a CEO and a board of directors, and is basically run as a business, albeit a subsidized one. You can take away the subsidies of course -- it would maybe be possible for Amtrak to operate profitably if it removed every route except the northeast corridor. But is that really want we want Amtrak for? To run one rail line?
NoSorryCannot 4y ago
It just NEEDS to. You have a feeling about it!
saghm 4y ago
> However USPS and Amtrek NEED to be run more like a business. The fact they have not been for decades is part of the problem with the services. Idk, I think that a USPS run like a business would either just decide not to operate in the less population dense parts of the US or charge them exorbitant rates for service. Even as someone who lives in a dense urban area, I think it's generally a good idea to have guaranteed mail service to anyone in the country even if that means that I'll essentially be subsidizing the cost of delivering mail to rural areas. I have trouble believing that USPS could be profitable, affordable to everyone, and available to everyone, and I'm much more willing to sacrifice the first one than either of the other two.
- syshum 4y ago
  running it has a business does not preclude requirements placed upon it by government. All businesses have to comply with government regulations, and a regulation that requires USPS to service rural routes would not preclude running the organization as a business. It could change things like Frequency of delivery, or other cost cutting but I have advocated for that anyway even for non-rural routes. personally i think residences should get mail delivery on Tue and Thur, and businesses on Mon, Wed and Fri with none of weekends. that alone would be a huge cost saving.
  - saghm 4y ago
    Splitting up residence mail days from business mail days doesn't seem to be at all related to whether it's a business or a government agency compared to the example I gave, so I guess I just don't understand at all what you mean by "run like a business".
- Maursault 4y ago
  > However USPS and Amtrek NEED to be run more like a business. The fact they have not been for decades is part of the problem with the services. Considering Republicans have been trying to kill the USPS for a hundred years with increasingly restrictive policy changes and increasingly impossibly tight budgets (considering the scope of their task with heavy competition), I think you are entirely mistaken about where the problems are. That the USPS operates at all under such absurd restraints and tight budget is nothing short of miraculous. The problem lies elsewhere, namely, with the major political party that would strongly prefer no government services, and no government, really. Other areas of the world call them anarchists; here we call them Republicans.
  - saghm 4y ago
    Did you mean to respond to the parent comment? I was just quoting them; I don't agree at all that they should be run as a business, which I think should be clear from the part of my comment that isn't a quote
  - syshum 4y ago
    Believing that the Republicans are anarchists is just laughable. I would like it if they were, I prefer a much smaller government than what the Republicans desire.
- prostoalex 4y ago
  It's possible to be run like a business but still have a mandate through a government regulatory body. Hospitals and utilities are examples private businesses that operate in a regulated environment. Narrowing down the USPS debate to "operate" vs "not operate" is a false dichotomy. For example, how critical is 6-day delivery schedule to the least populated areas? Would a 5-day schedule work out reasonably well?
Karrot_Kream 4y ago
> USPS and Amtrak NEED to be run more like a business What does "more like a business" even mean here? Historically Amtrak and the USPS budgets have been subject to political push-pull, so here I agree, both institutions need stable budgets. Other than that though, Amtrak can never make a profit because its competition, automobiles and highways, are subsidized by the government (very few toll roads exist in the US, it's mostly combination State and Federal funding which builds highways.) The USPS might be able to turn a profit but it would be really difficult given the long (probably unprofitable) routes it's required to carry and its inability to control its own rolling stock and employ certain workers means it would probably be a lost cause. If you mean an eye to efficiency and a buffer from the changing of governments, that I agree with.
- syshum 4y ago
  >>are subsidized by the government (very few toll roads exist in the US, it's mostly combination State and Federal funding which builds highways.) Toll Roads is not the only User Fees applied to fund roads. Other Fees include but are not limited to Gas Taxes, Vehicle Excise Taxes, Registration Fees, License Fee's, Wheel Taxes, etc. That is with out adding in other revenue's that should also be considered user fees but typically are not like Vehicle Sales Taxes, and Fines for traffic violations. Americans pay a TON of money directly in fees for access to the road system above and beyond tolls Further the Interstate system is considered to be a National Defense project, that citizens are allowed to use, kinda of like GPS. >>The USPS might be able to turn a profit "Run like a business" do not mean "turn a profit". Not all businesses are for-profit enterprises. A better turn of phrase may be found in the axiom of "Government Programs are judged by their intentions, Private Enterprise is judged by their results" "Run like a government" generally means a program is not judged by the results of the program, and any failing of the program is simply a matter of spending ever increasing amounts of money never critically looking at either the program itself or the assumptions of the programs "Run like a business" means looking at the objectives, setting a goal to achieve the objective, taking action, then evaluating the results of the action. Looking for inefficiencies, bad objectives, false assumptions, etc etc etc.
scarface74 4y ago
So if I were running the USPS like a business, I wouldn’t go out of my way to service less populated areas. I’m sure “rural America” would love that. The same for Amtrak.
- Redoubts 4y ago
  Isn’t that where the people voting for republicans to defund it are? Why give them something they don’t want?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It’s the same group of people who voted to “build the wall” and then complained that the government was using eminent domain to take their land to build it.
- syshum 4y ago
  See may other comments as I have already addressed this, but it does not follow that "running it like a business" precludes serving rural America. it is moronic to claim other wise. People that continue to make this claim clearly do not understand how to run a business at all, and are operating under this weird anti-capitalism rhetoric... as for Amtrak, I would be in-favor of a complete shutdown of that service, the USPS has some albeit limited constitutional basis for its existence, Amtrak does not
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The people who make the claim know this. They are just serving red meat to their constituents screaming “socialism” - the people who live in states who take in more in government benefits than they pay out.
    - syshum 4y ago
      The single years old partsian study that is the basis for the "takes in more takes than they pay out" is intellectually defieciant on many levels and ignores all kinds of inconvenient truths Anyone uses that as a justification for anything is just further perpetuating partisan divids not looking for solutions to any public policy problems So is that you? Just a partisan hack seeing through the my tribe good lens of party politics
ScoobleDoodle 4y ago
It's a service that charges the same for mailing a letter from rural Alaska to New York as it charges from New Jersey to New York, to facilitate communication and commerce. A situation where a loss on this one service is far outweighed by the benefits it brings to the society and economy. And it's not even running at a loss a fair portion of the time.

by syshum 4y ago

warning26 4y ago

In what way is it not run like one? Amtrak has a CEO and a board of directors, and is basically run as a business, albeit a subsidized one. You can take away the subsidies of course -- it would maybe be possible for Amtrak to operate profitably if it removed every route except the northeast corridor. But is that really want we want Amtrak for? To run one rail line?

NoSorryCannot 4y ago

It just NEEDS to. You have a feeling about it!

saghm 4y ago

> However USPS and Amtrek NEED to be run more like a business. The fact they have not been for decades is part of the problem with the services. Idk, I think that a USPS run like a business would either just decide not to operate in the less population dense parts of the US or charge them exorbitant rates for service. Even as someone who lives in a dense urban area, I think it's generally a good idea to have guaranteed mail service to anyone in the country even if that means that I'll essentially be subsidizing the cost of delivering mail to rural areas. I have trouble believing that USPS could be profitable, affordable to everyone, and available to everyone, and I'm much more willing to sacrifice the first one than either of the other two.

syshum 4y ago
running it has a business does not preclude requirements placed upon it by government. All businesses have to comply with government regulations, and a regulation that requires USPS to service rural routes would not preclude running the organization as a business. It could change things like Frequency of delivery, or other cost cutting but I have advocated for that anyway even for non-rural routes. personally i think residences should get mail delivery on Tue and Thur, and businesses on Mon, Wed and Fri with none of weekends. that alone would be a huge cost saving.
- saghm 4y ago
  Splitting up residence mail days from business mail days doesn't seem to be at all related to whether it's a business or a government agency compared to the example I gave, so I guess I just don't understand at all what you mean by "run like a business".
Maursault 4y ago
> However USPS and Amtrek NEED to be run more like a business. The fact they have not been for decades is part of the problem with the services. Considering Republicans have been trying to kill the USPS for a hundred years with increasingly restrictive policy changes and increasingly impossibly tight budgets (considering the scope of their task with heavy competition), I think you are entirely mistaken about where the problems are. That the USPS operates at all under such absurd restraints and tight budget is nothing short of miraculous. The problem lies elsewhere, namely, with the major political party that would strongly prefer no government services, and no government, really. Other areas of the world call them anarchists; here we call them Republicans.
- saghm 4y ago
  Did you mean to respond to the parent comment? I was just quoting them; I don't agree at all that they should be run as a business, which I think should be clear from the part of my comment that isn't a quote
- syshum 4y ago
  Believing that the Republicans are anarchists is just laughable. I would like it if they were, I prefer a much smaller government than what the Republicans desire.
prostoalex 4y ago
It's possible to be run like a business but still have a mandate through a government regulatory body. Hospitals and utilities are examples private businesses that operate in a regulated environment. Narrowing down the USPS debate to "operate" vs "not operate" is a false dichotomy. For example, how critical is 6-day delivery schedule to the least populated areas? Would a 5-day schedule work out reasonably well?

Karrot_Kream 4y ago

> USPS and Amtrak NEED to be run more like a business What does "more like a business" even mean here? Historically Amtrak and the USPS budgets have been subject to political push-pull, so here I agree, both institutions need stable budgets. Other than that though, Amtrak can never make a profit because its competition, automobiles and highways, are subsidized by the government (very few toll roads exist in the US, it's mostly combination State and Federal funding which builds highways.) The USPS might be able to turn a profit but it would be really difficult given the long (probably unprofitable) routes it's required to carry and its inability to control its own rolling stock and employ certain workers means it would probably be a lost cause. If you mean an eye to efficiency and a buffer from the changing of governments, that I agree with.

syshum 4y ago
>>are subsidized by the government (very few toll roads exist in the US, it's mostly combination State and Federal funding which builds highways.) Toll Roads is not the only User Fees applied to fund roads. Other Fees include but are not limited to Gas Taxes, Vehicle Excise Taxes, Registration Fees, License Fee's, Wheel Taxes, etc. That is with out adding in other revenue's that should also be considered user fees but typically are not like Vehicle Sales Taxes, and Fines for traffic violations. Americans pay a TON of money directly in fees for access to the road system above and beyond tolls Further the Interstate system is considered to be a National Defense project, that citizens are allowed to use, kinda of like GPS. >>The USPS might be able to turn a profit "Run like a business" do not mean "turn a profit". Not all businesses are for-profit enterprises. A better turn of phrase may be found in the axiom of "Government Programs are judged by their intentions, Private Enterprise is judged by their results" "Run like a government" generally means a program is not judged by the results of the program, and any failing of the program is simply a matter of spending ever increasing amounts of money never critically looking at either the program itself or the assumptions of the programs "Run like a business" means looking at the objectives, setting a goal to achieve the objective, taking action, then evaluating the results of the action. Looking for inefficiencies, bad objectives, false assumptions, etc etc etc.

scarface74 4y ago

So if I were running the USPS like a business, I wouldn’t go out of my way to service less populated areas. I’m sure “rural America” would love that. The same for Amtrak.

Redoubts 4y ago
Isn’t that where the people voting for republicans to defund it are? Why give them something they don’t want?
- scarface74 4y ago
  It’s the same group of people who voted to “build the wall” and then complained that the government was using eminent domain to take their land to build it.
syshum 4y ago
See may other comments as I have already addressed this, but it does not follow that "running it like a business" precludes serving rural America. it is moronic to claim other wise. People that continue to make this claim clearly do not understand how to run a business at all, and are operating under this weird anti-capitalism rhetoric... as for Amtrak, I would be in-favor of a complete shutdown of that service, the USPS has some albeit limited constitutional basis for its existence, Amtrak does not
- scarface74 4y ago
  The people who make the claim know this. They are just serving red meat to their constituents screaming “socialism” - the people who live in states who take in more in government benefits than they pay out.
  - syshum 4y ago
    The single years old partsian study that is the basis for the "takes in more takes than they pay out" is intellectually defieciant on many levels and ignores all kinds of inconvenient truths Anyone uses that as a justification for anything is just further perpetuating partisan divids not looking for solutions to any public policy problems So is that you? Just a partisan hack seeing through the my tribe good lens of party politics

ScoobleDoodle 4y ago

It's a service that charges the same for mailing a letter from rural Alaska to New York as it charges from New Jersey to New York, to facilitate communication and commerce. A situation where a loss on this one service is far outweighed by the benefits it brings to the society and economy. And it's not even running at a loss a fair portion of the time.