5 ms·

The LHC computing infrastructure is also quite impressive.

by spaetzleesser 5y ago

jfengel 5y ago
And CERN is literally the reason we're here on th Web right now.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  That's a huge stretch. CERN might be a reason we have the web that looks like it looks today, but we would have something similar with or without CERN.
  - davrosthedalek 4y ago
    We might be stuck with compuserve and AOL.
    - vidarh 4y ago
      We had the internet before the web, and we had gopher. So we had an open network, the client server model and links. What the web brought was a more flexible protocol and document format. That was important, but there's no way we'd have been stuck with compuserve or AOL.
      - SiempreViernes 4y ago
        Do you remember the time when messenger services were open to third party clients? You could actually talk to all your friends using only one app! Those days have ended.
        efitz 4y ago
        Do you remember the AIM/MSN wars, where AOL was literally building buffer overflows into their protocols to prevent MSN messenger from interoperating? There never was a golden age of interoperability on the internet, at least not after HTTP. Maybe there was a lot of cooperation when it was purely academic in the late 70s and 80s. BBS operators often were cooperative. But commercial internet has always and forever been cutthroat.
        vidarh 4y ago
        I could not talk to all my friends on only one app, as the vast majority of people were not online. If anything, a far larger number of people are still on open services today than were back then; there are just even more people on locked down services. But why you brought this up in a discussion about the invention of the web, I have no idea.
      - webmaven 4y ago
        Do you remember Microsoft's Blackbird: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(online_platform) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(online_platform)
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      We may well be stuck with the equivalent of those again, only we'll call them Google and Facebook.
- efitz 4y ago
  We had gopher and SGML before and independently of CERN. The internet was just starting to take off; dial-up modem BBS emigres were getting shell accounts at early ISPs around that time (I know; I had such an account and worked at such an ISP). Just because TBL happened to work at CERN and have a need for hypermedia, doesn't mean that we wouldn't have the WWW in approximately the same shape in approximately the same time frame without CERN or TBL.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    In an alternative timeline we could have had [1] http://www.art.net/studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/hyperlook/index.html http://www.art.net/studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/hyperlook/ind... [2] https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-goodnews-99f411e58ce4 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-go... (with screen shots) [3] https://libarynth.org/hyperlook https://libarynth.org/hyperlook (larger screenshots) based on [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS running atop of whatever, maybe even [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project & [6] http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/homepage.html http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/homepage.html instead of the bloat we have now.

The LHC computing infrastructure is also quite impressive.

jfengel 5y ago

And CERN is literally the reason we're here on th Web right now.

moonchrome 4y ago
That's a huge stretch. CERN might be a reason we have the web that looks like it looks today, but we would have something similar with or without CERN.
- davrosthedalek 4y ago
  We might be stuck with compuserve and AOL.
  - vidarh 4y ago
    We had the internet before the web, and we had gopher. So we had an open network, the client server model and links. What the web brought was a more flexible protocol and document format. That was important, but there's no way we'd have been stuck with compuserve or AOL.
    - SiempreViernes 4y ago
      Do you remember the time when messenger services were open to third party clients? You could actually talk to all your friends using only one app! Those days have ended.
      - efitz 4y ago
        Do you remember the AIM/MSN wars, where AOL was literally building buffer overflows into their protocols to prevent MSN messenger from interoperating? There never was a golden age of interoperability on the internet, at least not after HTTP. Maybe there was a lot of cooperation when it was purely academic in the late 70s and 80s. BBS operators often were cooperative. But commercial internet has always and forever been cutthroat.
      - vidarh 4y ago
        I could not talk to all my friends on only one app, as the vast majority of people were not online. If anything, a far larger number of people are still on open services today than were back then; there are just even more people on locked down services. But why you brought this up in a discussion about the invention of the web, I have no idea.
    - webmaven 4y ago
      Do you remember Microsoft's Blackbird: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(online_platform) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackbird_(online_platform)
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    We may well be stuck with the equivalent of those again, only we'll call them Google and Facebook.
efitz 4y ago
We had gopher and SGML before and independently of CERN. The internet was just starting to take off; dial-up modem BBS emigres were getting shell accounts at early ISPs around that time (I know; I had such an account and worked at such an ISP). Just because TBL happened to work at CERN and have a need for hypermedia, doesn't mean that we wouldn't have the WWW in approximately the same shape in approximately the same time frame without CERN or TBL.
- LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
  In an alternative timeline we could have had [1] http://www.art.net/studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/hyperlook/index.html http://www.art.net/studios/Hackers/Hopkins/Don/hyperlook/ind... [2] https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-goodnews-99f411e58ce4 https://donhopkins.medium.com/hyperlook-nee-hypernews-nee-go... (with screen shots) [3] https://libarynth.org/hyperlook https://libarynth.org/hyperlook (larger screenshots) based on [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeWS running atop of whatever, maybe even [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRON_project & [6] http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/homepage.html http://tronweb.super-nova.co.jp/homepage.html instead of the bloat we have now.