4 ms·

Electric buses are not a new hip thing, we have had electric buses since forever. It's called a trolleybus. At the moment its in every way superior to batteries

by trmonx 4y ago

Electric buses are not a new hip thing, we have had electric buses since forever. It's called a trolleybus. At the moment its in every way superior to batteries.

toiuoiu289801 4y ago
This. It's astonishing that someone would put batteries into these things.
subw00f 4y ago
I'm not an expert, but I would think creating or changing existing routes for trolleybuses would require setting up overhead wires, which probably need a few things to be in place beforehand. Isn't that just slower/costlier than simply driving on a different street? What about intercity routes? Doesn't sound superior to me on that front. edit: grammar
- warning26 4y ago
  Changing routes isn't really that frequent once you have a working setup. As for intercity travel, this should be set up as rail, not a bus, in basically 100% of cases.
  - subw00f 4y ago
    I've been to major European cities in the last few weeks, Paris, London, Edinburgh, all of them, with no exception had bus routes changed temporarily because of construction, protests, events etc. Of course it's frequent.
- lapinot 4y ago
  Most trolleybuses I know have independent emergency propulsion and can reattach without too much difficulty at specific places (usually stops). So temporary short rerouting isn't difficult. Apparently they even have trolley/battery hybrids in zurich where the battery is used as part of normal operation (claiming to need wires only for ~half of the route).
monkey_monkey 4y ago
Don't trolleybuses require overhead wires? Doesn't that mean you would need to retrofit all routes with poles, cables, etc? How do they cope with diversions?
mumblemumble 4y ago
I can't see it as being superior in every way. In most cities where I've spent significant time with the public transit system, it's relatively common for the buses to need to reroute around things like road construction and street festivals. Also, buses frequently need to pass other buses on the same route that are stopped due to equipment problems or running slowly due to overcrowding. A trolleybus would have a hard time dealing with those sorts of things. It's also, I would guess, a lot more difficult to get off the ground. With battery powered buses, you just buy however many buses, and throw them on whatever pre-existing route. With a trolleybus, you need to install the overhead wire system before you can get started. And then, I would imagine the overhead wire system itself becomes a problem. Do you have to worry about transporting oversize loads on or across the same streets? Is it going to become another electrocution hazard for people who need to work above the street? etc. That's not to say there aren't advantages to trolleybuses, too. Just that the claim that it's "in every way superior to batteries" is an overreach.
- nicbou 4y ago
  What about an hybrid solution? Smaller batteries could let trolleybuses venture from their infrastructure as needed, but at a reduced cost.
  - peterpost2 4y ago
    We had this here in the Netherlands, the system broke down quite a lot and apparently had quite some wear and tear I guess it can be improved thoug.
    - mumblemumble 4y ago
      How do they re-attach the bus to the power lines? Is it reasonably automatic, or does the driver have to fuss with it?
- trmonx 4y ago
  It's not an overreach, trolleybuses work surprisingly well at the moment. Lighter, much, much cheaper, less electricity required. And you need less of them. Metro, trams, trolleybuses should be used primarily and then you can add electric buses for gaps. That would make sense, not trying to go straight for the most expensive and wasteful option.
saturn_vk 4y ago
Trolleybus routes require additional costs for maintenance. This might be significant
- lapinot 4y ago
  Otoh vehicule maintenance, cost and energy use is smaller.
D13Fd 4y ago
Superior in every way except for massive infrastructure costs, unsightly wires or rails, and fixed routes, I suppose.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
panick21_ 4y ago
No. I live in a city with wires but many buses go from the city into the surrounding areas. And to put up wires threw all the lower density areas where people live is just a bad idea. Modern batteries can go for decades. A battery based system is far more flexible, you can uses buses all over the place and dynamically adjust routes based on demand. Overhead wires are also significantly ugly to have in a city.

by trmonx 4y ago

Electric buses are not a new hip thing, we have had electric buses since forever. It's called a trolleybus. At the moment its in every way superior to batteries.

toiuoiu289801 4y ago

This. It's astonishing that someone would put batteries into these things.

subw00f 4y ago

I'm not an expert, but I would think creating or changing existing routes for trolleybuses would require setting up overhead wires, which probably need a few things to be in place beforehand. Isn't that just slower/costlier than simply driving on a different street? What about intercity routes? Doesn't sound superior to me on that front. edit: grammar

warning26 4y ago
Changing routes isn't really that frequent once you have a working setup. As for intercity travel, this should be set up as rail, not a bus, in basically 100% of cases.
- subw00f 4y ago
  I've been to major European cities in the last few weeks, Paris, London, Edinburgh, all of them, with no exception had bus routes changed temporarily because of construction, protests, events etc. Of course it's frequent.
lapinot 4y ago
Most trolleybuses I know have independent emergency propulsion and can reattach without too much difficulty at specific places (usually stops). So temporary short rerouting isn't difficult. Apparently they even have trolley/battery hybrids in zurich where the battery is used as part of normal operation (claiming to need wires only for ~half of the route).

monkey_monkey 4y ago

Don't trolleybuses require overhead wires? Doesn't that mean you would need to retrofit all routes with poles, cables, etc? How do they cope with diversions?

mumblemumble 4y ago

I can't see it as being superior in every way. In most cities where I've spent significant time with the public transit system, it's relatively common for the buses to need to reroute around things like road construction and street festivals. Also, buses frequently need to pass other buses on the same route that are stopped due to equipment problems or running slowly due to overcrowding. A trolleybus would have a hard time dealing with those sorts of things. It's also, I would guess, a lot more difficult to get off the ground. With battery powered buses, you just buy however many buses, and throw them on whatever pre-existing route. With a trolleybus, you need to install the overhead wire system before you can get started. And then, I would imagine the overhead wire system itself becomes a problem. Do you have to worry about transporting oversize loads on or across the same streets? Is it going to become another electrocution hazard for people who need to work above the street? etc. That's not to say there aren't advantages to trolleybuses, too. Just that the claim that it's "in every way superior to batteries" is an overreach.

nicbou 4y ago
What about an hybrid solution? Smaller batteries could let trolleybuses venture from their infrastructure as needed, but at a reduced cost.
- peterpost2 4y ago
  We had this here in the Netherlands, the system broke down quite a lot and apparently had quite some wear and tear I guess it can be improved thoug.
  - mumblemumble 4y ago
    How do they re-attach the bus to the power lines? Is it reasonably automatic, or does the driver have to fuss with it?
trmonx 4y ago
It's not an overreach, trolleybuses work surprisingly well at the moment. Lighter, much, much cheaper, less electricity required. And you need less of them. Metro, trams, trolleybuses should be used primarily and then you can add electric buses for gaps. That would make sense, not trying to go straight for the most expensive and wasteful option.

saturn_vk 4y ago

Trolleybus routes require additional costs for maintenance. This might be significant

lapinot 4y ago
Otoh vehicule maintenance, cost and energy use is smaller.

D13Fd 4y ago

Superior in every way except for massive infrastructure costs, unsightly wires or rails, and fixed routes, I suppose.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

panick21_ 4y ago

No. I live in a city with wires but many buses go from the city into the surrounding areas. And to put up wires threw all the lower density areas where people live is just a bad idea. Modern batteries can go for decades. A battery based system is far more flexible, you can uses buses all over the place and dynamically adjust routes based on demand. Overhead wires are also significantly ugly to have in a city.