4 ms·

Wasn't Elon just being called a misogynist for daring to disagree with a policy decision a women exec at twitter made to censor political topics? The other com

by syshum 4y ago

Wasn't Elon just being called a misogynist for daring to disagree with a policy decision a women exec at twitter made to censor political topics? The other commenter post a different example, I feel like there are TONS of such examples.

ModernMech 4y ago
> daring to disagree with a policy decision That's not exactly what happened. It's one thing to "dare to disagree". It's another to do so in a public way that mocked and belittled her (a meme on Twitter) and that predictably lead to threats and copious and gratuitous misogyny directed at her. So what was Musk's intent here? Because he knew or should have known that would be the result of his actions. Isn't the directed use of mobs to harass and discredit people precisely the thing he bought Twitter to combat?
- zmgsabst 4y ago
  Musk criticized her male colleagues such as the CEO in the same manner. Look at what you’re saying: That it’s “misogyny” to post a meme [1] critical of someone’s work when they’re in a powerful position paid millions of dollars a year! That’s absolutely ridiculous. The meme mocked her conversation on Joe Rogan, which was ridiculously partisan. She’s not exempt from having her poor performance as an executive criticized because she’s a woman. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/ayiouz/it_do_be_like_that_though/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/ayiouz/it_do_be_l...
  - ModernMech 4y ago
    I'm specifically objecting to the framing that musk "dared to disagree", as if anything he did took courage, or that Tweeting memes is how adult professionals handle workplace disagreements with subordinates. Probably this idea of misogyny is overselling it, but this seems to be an example of Musk attempting to engage in the very "cancel culture" he decries. There are a billion other ways to handle his disagreement that would lead to a better outcome than tweeting a meme. Again I have to ask: what did Musk expect would happen? If he didn't think the result of tweeting that meme would be harassment of the person he targeted, misogynistic or otherwise (although that is the brand of backlash he produced), what was his actual goal in tweeting the image? What was he trying to accomplish? edit: Again to reiterate, the basis of my objection to Musk's meme is not that it's misogynistic, its that the effect was a predictable (because it happens with great frequency so as to be expected) misogynistic backlash. So if Musk simply disagreed with this particular person, he could have handled that in a professional way. By tweeting a meme targeting someone in public, everyone knows that target is going to get a deluge of misogynistic hate if they are a woman. That is how Twitter, the company Musk just bought and of which he is a prolific user, operates. So he should know that fact. If Musk has a simple disagreement he should act as adult professionals do and talk about that disagreement with that specific individual, instead of targeting them publicly in a way he should have known would cause her harm.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - syshum 4y ago
      >>r that Tweeting memes is how adult professionals handle workplace disagreements Clearly you have not experienced Teams or Slack where MEME's are pretty common in both even in professional discussions. There is even a built in interface for search for meme's / gifs to respond with. >what was his actual goal in tweeting the image? To convey a complex point in less than 180 characters by using a image which we all know is worth 1000 words far more than you can put in a text response To believe the meme's goal was "harassment" furthers the stereotype that people on the political left just cant meme.... The meme was in no way targeted harassment. >>predictable misogynistic backlash. So if that is the foundation, does this mean women are never to be criticized at all because some 3rd party may respond to that criticism in a misogynistic way. Sorry I reject that premise
      - ModernMech 4y ago
        > Clearly you have not experienced Teams or Slack I have, but what Musk did here would be considered incredibly out of line in my workplace. The meme database doesn't have a category for memes targeting my subordinates (and yes to the other poster I know that Elon Musk is not technically her boss yet, but for all intents and purposes the pecking order has been established already). But beyond that, exactly 0 sentences of our disagreements happen over public channels in front of millions of followers. > using a image which we all know is worth 1000 words far more than you can put in a text response That's part of the problem. One thing I've noticed about Elon Musk (and similar people who aim to craft a cult of personality) is that his followers project whatever hero they need onto him. As public as Musk is, he has a wide variety of followers some of whom are in fact quite misogynistic, and very much enjoy to read misogyny as one of those 1000 unspoken words conveyed by Musk posting that image. They then act on those misogynistic thoughts by attacking the target of Musk's meme. The same kind of dynamic existed for Trump. Is that Musk's direct fault? No, he doesn't literally cause people to post misogynistic things. But Musk's cult of personality does in fact have a power to move people to act, and depending on how Musk wields that power he can in fact predictably move people toward certain actions. Tweeting about spaceship launches gets his followers excited about spaceship launches. There's no explosion of misogyny against particular women after Musk tweets about a success at Tesla or SpaceX. But Tweeting attacks against specific people gets his followers to attack specific people. Some of those attacks are legitimate argument grounded in logic. But a great many more of those attacks were the basest human thoughts imaginable. People also attacked her race, so that's why I'm not saying that the tweet itself was misogynistic, but it elicited misogyny. It wasn't racist, but it elicited racism. And that's the power Musk has -- the power to move crowds to do his bidding. Which in fact makes what he did all the more reprehensible, because he did it as he decries this very power being wielded by "woke mobs". He did the exact same thing. So my problem with Musk's tweet is that he can't just tweet like the rest of us. He has a power, and as a fan of comics he should know that comes with great responsibility. Even the most misogynistic incels in the world posting the most hateful screeds imaginable can't move thousands of other likeminded people to similarly do so in a targeted fashion. Because they have no power. But Elon Musk with 0 malice in his heart can rain down hate and harassment on anyone through his followers if he's careless. > The meme was in no way targeted harassment. But it was targeted against an individual, and the predictable result was in fact harassment so.... Let me put it this way: if Musk really didn't mean for this person to be harassed, he could have posted a follow-up tweet expressing his concern that the harassment was happening and to defend the person he specifically targeted. That didn't happen so I think we know where he stands.

by syshum 4y ago

ModernMech 4y ago

> daring to disagree with a policy decision That's not exactly what happened. It's one thing to "dare to disagree". It's another to do so in a public way that mocked and belittled her (a meme on Twitter) and that predictably lead to threats and copious and gratuitous misogyny directed at her. So what was Musk's intent here? Because he knew or should have known that would be the result of his actions. Isn't the directed use of mobs to harass and discredit people precisely the thing he bought Twitter to combat?

zmgsabst 4y ago
Musk criticized her male colleagues such as the CEO in the same manner. Look at what you’re saying: That it’s “misogyny” to post a meme [1] critical of someone’s work when they’re in a powerful position paid millions of dollars a year! That’s absolutely ridiculous. The meme mocked her conversation on Joe Rogan, which was ridiculously partisan. She’s not exempt from having her poor performance as an executive criticized because she’s a woman. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/ayiouz/it_do_be_like_that_though/ https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/ayiouz/it_do_be_l...
- ModernMech 4y ago
  I'm specifically objecting to the framing that musk "dared to disagree", as if anything he did took courage, or that Tweeting memes is how adult professionals handle workplace disagreements with subordinates. Probably this idea of misogyny is overselling it, but this seems to be an example of Musk attempting to engage in the very "cancel culture" he decries. There are a billion other ways to handle his disagreement that would lead to a better outcome than tweeting a meme. Again I have to ask: what did Musk expect would happen? If he didn't think the result of tweeting that meme would be harassment of the person he targeted, misogynistic or otherwise (although that is the brand of backlash he produced), what was his actual goal in tweeting the image? What was he trying to accomplish? edit: Again to reiterate, the basis of my objection to Musk's meme is not that it's misogynistic, its that the effect was a predictable (because it happens with great frequency so as to be expected) misogynistic backlash. So if Musk simply disagreed with this particular person, he could have handled that in a professional way. By tweeting a meme targeting someone in public, everyone knows that target is going to get a deluge of misogynistic hate if they are a woman. That is how Twitter, the company Musk just bought and of which he is a prolific user, operates. So he should know that fact. If Musk has a simple disagreement he should act as adult professionals do and talk about that disagreement with that specific individual, instead of targeting them publicly in a way he should have known would cause her harm.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - syshum 4y ago
    >>r that Tweeting memes is how adult professionals handle workplace disagreements Clearly you have not experienced Teams or Slack where MEME's are pretty common in both even in professional discussions. There is even a built in interface for search for meme's / gifs to respond with. >what was his actual goal in tweeting the image? To convey a complex point in less than 180 characters by using a image which we all know is worth 1000 words far more than you can put in a text response To believe the meme's goal was "harassment" furthers the stereotype that people on the political left just cant meme.... The meme was in no way targeted harassment. >>predictable misogynistic backlash. So if that is the foundation, does this mean women are never to be criticized at all because some 3rd party may respond to that criticism in a misogynistic way. Sorry I reject that premise
    - ModernMech 4y ago
      > Clearly you have not experienced Teams or Slack I have, but what Musk did here would be considered incredibly out of line in my workplace. The meme database doesn't have a category for memes targeting my subordinates (and yes to the other poster I know that Elon Musk is not technically her boss yet, but for all intents and purposes the pecking order has been established already). But beyond that, exactly 0 sentences of our disagreements happen over public channels in front of millions of followers. > using a image which we all know is worth 1000 words far more than you can put in a text response That's part of the problem. One thing I've noticed about Elon Musk (and similar people who aim to craft a cult of personality) is that his followers project whatever hero they need onto him. As public as Musk is, he has a wide variety of followers some of whom are in fact quite misogynistic, and very much enjoy to read misogyny as one of those 1000 unspoken words conveyed by Musk posting that image. They then act on those misogynistic thoughts by attacking the target of Musk's meme. The same kind of dynamic existed for Trump. Is that Musk's direct fault? No, he doesn't literally cause people to post misogynistic things. But Musk's cult of personality does in fact have a power to move people to act, and depending on how Musk wields that power he can in fact predictably move people toward certain actions. Tweeting about spaceship launches gets his followers excited about spaceship launches. There's no explosion of misogyny against particular women after Musk tweets about a success at Tesla or SpaceX. But Tweeting attacks against specific people gets his followers to attack specific people. Some of those attacks are legitimate argument grounded in logic. But a great many more of those attacks were the basest human thoughts imaginable. People also attacked her race, so that's why I'm not saying that the tweet itself was misogynistic, but it elicited misogyny. It wasn't racist, but it elicited racism. And that's the power Musk has -- the power to move crowds to do his bidding. Which in fact makes what he did all the more reprehensible, because he did it as he decries this very power being wielded by "woke mobs". He did the exact same thing. So my problem with Musk's tweet is that he can't just tweet like the rest of us. He has a power, and as a fan of comics he should know that comes with great responsibility. Even the most misogynistic incels in the world posting the most hateful screeds imaginable can't move thousands of other likeminded people to similarly do so in a targeted fashion. Because they have no power. But Elon Musk with 0 malice in his heart can rain down hate and harassment on anyone through his followers if he's careless. > The meme was in no way targeted harassment. But it was targeted against an individual, and the predictable result was in fact harassment so.... Let me put it this way: if Musk really didn't mean for this person to be harassed, he could have posted a follow-up tweet expressing his concern that the harassment was happening and to defend the person he specifically targeted. That didn't happen so I think we know where he stands.