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Although I get what you're saying, I challenge that it "won't get through to certain people". I think the advice is pretty common for people in that mindset. It

Although I get what you're saying, I challenge that it "won't get through to certain people". I think the advice is pretty common for people in that mindset. It's littered in every best selling self-help books read by millions worldwide (Tony Robbins, Mel Robbins, lots of Robbins for some reason). It is definitely "life changing" going from a depressive state to a neutral or even positive one. But it seems most people start their self-improvement journey from depressive states they aren't aware of. Break-ups, financial ruin, tragic loss, shitty job, family issues, etc. While self-actualization is indeed different for us all, there is a common sentiment to it which is being able to realize your full potential. The only way to do that is to constantly work on improving yourself as a person. That gives you much of the newfound sense of "security" and "growth" we all strive for in life.

sverona 5y ago
I'd like to challenge your challenge, if I may. I'm clinically depressed. I've had suicidal ideation for about twelve years (half my life.) On the rare days when sunlight peeks through and I can see the sky, yeah, working out and taking care of myself make me feel amazing. But most of the time it's just something I do. I don't feel better afterward. There may be a shadow of a thought in the back of my head like "this is making me stronger," but that's about it. I've read an awful lot of LessWrong guides like the link about, pithily, how to extract more marginal value from your life. The problem is that before doing any of that makes sense I have to stop being so depressed, because every time I do something that's supposed to make me feel good I end up literally wanting to fucking kill myself. When I ask myself what I want out of life, the answer comes back immediately, "I want to die." Depression is this huge boulder that has been keeping me from getting on with my life for years now, and I know this but I'm not strong enough to move it myself. The best I can do is make life in the cave busy. Before the inevitable replies pour in, I am doing every last thing I physically can about this. I run. I lift. I'm vegetarian and I eat a pretty healthy diet. I'm medicated. I'm in therapy. When I try meditation, it tends to bring me back to the feelings of wanting to die, and that's too much for me to sit with. I'm pursuing ketamine because I'm sick of living like this. I hope it helps me move the boulder.
- abnry 5y ago
  That's rough. Hope things improve for you. Hope you can crack the code.
- dazc 5y ago
  > Before the inevitable replies pour in... Nothing worse than helpful advice when you're not in a good state of mind, I agree. Nonetheless, keep going and I hope that one day you can put all this behind you.
- thenerdhead 5y ago
  I hear you. Just know that you are enough. You always will be. I know what you're going through. Also struggled for my whole life with these issues and been through my own dark night of the soul. I've found the ancient philosophies of buddhism, taoism, stoicism(this one most), and many others to help me move this boulder all the way up the hill and not constantly failing like Sisyphus. Part of you does die per-say, you're not the same person as you were previously. People refer to that as an awakening, a self-realization, but I see it as your ego dying in the process. Very common if you think about it from a Greek myth perspective of a hero's journey or even part of Star Wars where the Padawan becomes the Jedi Master. I don't know if this happens to everyone in life nor will everyone realize it, but finding meaning in life for me meant reading tons of books and getting clarity of what was missing in my life after better understanding self-actualization from many angles. After-all it is the big question we all want an answer to. I think I found that, but I still do suffer through stormy weather here and there and I remind myself that I've gotten through it before, I'll get through it again. I've been through years of depression, and now they are more like weeks if not days. Highly recommend reasons to stay alive by Matt Haig and man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl if you haven't read them already. Wishing you the best and do know that you are enough.
  - sverona 5y ago
    Thank you for responding. I find Stoicism interesting, although I try to separate it from the Redditors that make it their whole identity. I've read Frankl. I'm not familiar with Haig. I'll put it on the list.

sverona 5y ago

I'd like to challenge your challenge, if I may. I'm clinically depressed. I've had suicidal ideation for about twelve years (half my life.) On the rare days when sunlight peeks through and I can see the sky, yeah, working out and taking care of myself make me feel amazing. But most of the time it's just something I do. I don't feel better afterward. There may be a shadow of a thought in the back of my head like "this is making me stronger," but that's about it. I've read an awful lot of LessWrong guides like the link about, pithily, how to extract more marginal value from your life. The problem is that before doing any of that makes sense I have to stop being so depressed, because every time I do something that's supposed to make me feel good I end up literally wanting to fucking kill myself. When I ask myself what I want out of life, the answer comes back immediately, "I want to die." Depression is this huge boulder that has been keeping me from getting on with my life for years now, and I know this but I'm not strong enough to move it myself. The best I can do is make life in the cave busy. Before the inevitable replies pour in, I am doing every last thing I physically can about this. I run. I lift. I'm vegetarian and I eat a pretty healthy diet. I'm medicated. I'm in therapy. When I try meditation, it tends to bring me back to the feelings of wanting to die, and that's too much for me to sit with. I'm pursuing ketamine because I'm sick of living like this. I hope it helps me move the boulder.

abnry 5y ago
That's rough. Hope things improve for you. Hope you can crack the code.
dazc 5y ago
> Before the inevitable replies pour in... Nothing worse than helpful advice when you're not in a good state of mind, I agree. Nonetheless, keep going and I hope that one day you can put all this behind you.
thenerdhead 5y ago
I hear you. Just know that you are enough. You always will be. I know what you're going through. Also struggled for my whole life with these issues and been through my own dark night of the soul. I've found the ancient philosophies of buddhism, taoism, stoicism(this one most), and many others to help me move this boulder all the way up the hill and not constantly failing like Sisyphus. Part of you does die per-say, you're not the same person as you were previously. People refer to that as an awakening, a self-realization, but I see it as your ego dying in the process. Very common if you think about it from a Greek myth perspective of a hero's journey or even part of Star Wars where the Padawan becomes the Jedi Master. I don't know if this happens to everyone in life nor will everyone realize it, but finding meaning in life for me meant reading tons of books and getting clarity of what was missing in my life after better understanding self-actualization from many angles. After-all it is the big question we all want an answer to. I think I found that, but I still do suffer through stormy weather here and there and I remind myself that I've gotten through it before, I'll get through it again. I've been through years of depression, and now they are more like weeks if not days. Highly recommend reasons to stay alive by Matt Haig and man's search for meaning by Viktor Frankl if you haven't read them already. Wishing you the best and do know that you are enough.
- sverona 5y ago
  Thank you for responding. I find Stoicism interesting, although I try to separate it from the Redditors that make it their whole identity. I've read Frankl. I'm not familiar with Haig. I'll put it on the list.