7 ms·

As a former vehement atheist, learning more about Christianity. It’s a daily process.

by enw 4y ago

aae42 4y ago
How?
- enw 4y ago
  It’s a mishmash of things and I’m only scratching the surface, sorry can’t give a coherent answer. But some books (Mere Christianity, The Case for Christ, The Believing Scientist, stuff by Garry Habermas, etc.), Wikipedia, the Bible (especially letters of Paul and historical analysis of them), Reddit, going to Church, taking Alpha course provided by it, talking with pastors, with Christians, random articles (e.g. https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/ https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/), thinking about things myself, etc.
smitty1e 4y ago
He's just the operating system of life. Keep up the joy.
- uuyi 4y ago
  I currently suspect god is malware or doesn’t exist.
  - smitty1e 4y ago
    It's a fair cop, I suppose, but doesn't reality as such seem too ordered?
    - uuyi 4y ago
      It seems that way but I think the virtual machine (universe) we run on just has some emergent constraints on possibilities and outcomes and we are just observing them.
      - smitty1e 4y ago
        > the virtual machine (universe) we run on just has some emergent constraints But this is not to be confused with some sort of cosmic operating system?
        uuyi 4y ago
        I don’t think there’s a cosmic operating system. It’s more a meta-stable Conway game of life type environment. Either that or I drank too much funky tea once.
        smitty1e 4y ago
        No need to argue in circles here, but I can't see how one posits a "meta-stable Conway game of life" while eschewing an "operating system". Much hinges on definitiona here. And there isn't much need to continue this further here. Cheers!
    - t-3 4y ago
      Order occurs within any random sequence, this should be expected. Humans are just drawn to the patterns and like to ascribe meaning to things.
      - smitty1e 4y ago
        When you say: > this should be expected there is some larger evaluation context implied, which I find interesting. Repackaged: I don't know how much faith I can place in random sequences.
turing_complete 4y ago
I recommend "Can a Scientist Believe in Miracles?" by Ian Hutchinson, physicist and professor at MIT. It covers the rational arguments for Christianity and how to integrate a scientific and Christian view of the world. And C.S. Lewis, of course, but you're already reading him.
- noir_lord 4y ago
  - kashunstva 4y ago
    > Is it also the Guinness record holder for worlds shortest book?. I'm also a non-theist, but I think there's something to be gained by reading the apologetics, in part to understand the motivations and perspectives of theists, but failing that, to sharpen one's own rational thinking skills. There's also a lot of history of the philosophical traditions to appreciate.
    - serenitylater 4y ago
  - throw0101a 4y ago
    > Is it also the Guinness record holder for worlds shortest book? 336 pages covering Aristotle, Plotinus, Augustine, Aquinas, Leibniz: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-the-existence-of-god https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-... 205 (dense) pages going over Aquinas' Five Ways: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas
  - turing_complete 4y ago
    Yawn. Do you think this is edgy or provocative in 2022?
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > I recommend "Can a Scientist Believe in Miracles?" by Ian Hutchinson […] Books by (Brother) Guy Consolmagno, the Director of the Vatican Observatory, are also worth checking out: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno Perhaps specifically God's Mechanics: How Scientists and Engineers Make Sense of Religion. Interview: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DAKaR16cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DAKaR16cY
azangru 4y ago
Oh wow, I would love to hear what made you change your mind. I can understand the progression from a believer to an agnostic or an atheist, but am fascinated by the evolution in the opposite direction.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  If you're hyper-rational, Edward Feser's books would be a could start: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-the-existence-of-god https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-... * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas
- galfarragem 4y ago
  I believe that Atheism already achieved its peak on Western world. Anecdotally, I don't know anybody that became Atheist recently but many that embraced some kind of Theism. No matter how we deal with it, Atheism is linked to individualism and it may make your existence more difficult than it needs to be. By the other hand, Theism is linked to communities. There's nothing better to unite people as a shared belief.
  - azangru 4y ago
    > No matter how we deal with it, Atheism is linked to individualism and may make your existence more difficult than it needs to be. By the other hand, Theism is linked to communities. There's nothing better to unite people as a shared belief. I see what you are saying; but this idea, which I have seen expressed many times, has always perplexed me. I understand that, pragmatically speaking, having a shared belief in a supreme being may be beneficial; but one cannot just turn a belief on or off based on how beneficial it is. Even if it is true that the believers live a psychologically better, healthier and more fulfilling life (as opposed to, say, agonizing whether they will end up in hell), it is only a statement about their mental state rather than about the truth of what they believe in.
    - galfarragem 4y ago
bennysomething 4y ago
Have you heard of a book called Dominion? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43885149-dominion https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43885149-dominion I was also an atheist fundamentalist, I still don't think I believe in God, but that book showed me how Christianity shaped the west. The history of Christianity is fascinating.
anotherevan 4y ago
I've gone the other way as I've gotten older, which is not unusual - however I've not built up the vehemence that I see with many other ex-religious. I sometimes quip that I'm more of a "there but for the grace of God type of atheist."
swat535 4y ago
I went through this process and ended up fully converting to Catholicism.. in fact my case was even _more_ extreme as I was also born in an Islamic country. So I went from someone who REALLY hated religion (I literally lived everything Hitchens was talking about) to a confirmed Catholic by doing RCIA.. The process really started for me when I realized that God is ultimately a philosophical question (God is Ipsum Esse) rather than a scientific one. If science could answer everything, then we might as well throw out the entire field of philosophy after all.. This is how I started to study philosophy and theology (both _serious_ Atheist philosophers such as Jean Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, .. as well theologians). I think it has been an absolute net positive in my life. I've gained a wealth of knowledge, significantly grown my network and feel much more grounded in my spiritual well being. You should however, be prepared to be ridiculed if you outwardly practice your faith. I was surprised how many people would essentially conclude that I am either not educated or "brain washed".

As a former vehement atheist, learning more about Christianity. It’s a daily process.

by enw 4y ago

As a former vehement atheist, learning more about Christianity. It’s a daily process.

aae42 4y ago

How?

enw 4y ago
It’s a mishmash of things and I’m only scratching the surface, sorry can’t give a coherent answer. But some books (Mere Christianity, The Case for Christ, The Believing Scientist, stuff by Garry Habermas, etc.), Wikipedia, the Bible (especially letters of Paul and historical analysis of them), Reddit, going to Church, taking Alpha course provided by it, talking with pastors, with Christians, random articles (e.g. https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/ https://faculty.som.yale.edu/jameschoi/whychrist/), thinking about things myself, etc.

smitty1e 4y ago

He's just the operating system of life. Keep up the joy.

uuyi 4y ago
I currently suspect god is malware or doesn’t exist.
- smitty1e 4y ago
  It's a fair cop, I suppose, but doesn't reality as such seem too ordered?
  - uuyi 4y ago
    It seems that way but I think the virtual machine (universe) we run on just has some emergent constraints on possibilities and outcomes and we are just observing them.
    - smitty1e 4y ago
      > the virtual machine (universe) we run on just has some emergent constraints But this is not to be confused with some sort of cosmic operating system?
      - uuyi 4y ago
        I don’t think there’s a cosmic operating system. It’s more a meta-stable Conway game of life type environment. Either that or I drank too much funky tea once.
        smitty1e 4y ago
        No need to argue in circles here, but I can't see how one posits a "meta-stable Conway game of life" while eschewing an "operating system". Much hinges on definitiona here. And there isn't much need to continue this further here. Cheers!
  - t-3 4y ago
    Order occurs within any random sequence, this should be expected. Humans are just drawn to the patterns and like to ascribe meaning to things.
    - smitty1e 4y ago
      When you say: > this should be expected there is some larger evaluation context implied, which I find interesting. Repackaged: I don't know how much faith I can place in random sequences.

turing_complete 4y ago

I recommend "Can a Scientist Believe in Miracles?" by Ian Hutchinson, physicist and professor at MIT. It covers the rational arguments for Christianity and how to integrate a scientific and Christian view of the world. And C.S. Lewis, of course, but you're already reading him.

noir_lord 4y ago
- kashunstva 4y ago
  > Is it also the Guinness record holder for worlds shortest book?. I'm also a non-theist, but I think there's something to be gained by reading the apologetics, in part to understand the motivations and perspectives of theists, but failing that, to sharpen one's own rational thinking skills. There's also a lot of history of the philosophical traditions to appreciate.
  - serenitylater 4y ago
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > Is it also the Guinness record holder for worlds shortest book? 336 pages covering Aristotle, Plotinus, Augustine, Aquinas, Leibniz: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-the-existence-of-god https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-... 205 (dense) pages going over Aquinas' Five Ways: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas
- turing_complete 4y ago
  Yawn. Do you think this is edgy or provocative in 2022?
throw0101a 4y ago
> I recommend "Can a Scientist Believe in Miracles?" by Ian Hutchinson […] Books by (Brother) Guy Consolmagno, the Director of the Vatican Observatory, are also worth checking out: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Consolmagno Perhaps specifically God's Mechanics: How Scientists and Engineers Make Sense of Religion. Interview: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DAKaR16cY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DAKaR16cY

azangru 4y ago

Oh wow, I would love to hear what made you change your mind. I can understand the progression from a believer to an agnostic or an atheist, but am fascinated by the evolution in the opposite direction.

throw0101a 4y ago
If you're hyper-rational, Edward Feser's books would be a could start: * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-the-existence-of-god https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35592365-five-proofs-of-... * https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6963088-aquinas
galfarragem 4y ago
I believe that Atheism already achieved its peak on Western world. Anecdotally, I don't know anybody that became Atheist recently but many that embraced some kind of Theism. No matter how we deal with it, Atheism is linked to individualism and it may make your existence more difficult than it needs to be. By the other hand, Theism is linked to communities. There's nothing better to unite people as a shared belief.
- azangru 4y ago
  > No matter how we deal with it, Atheism is linked to individualism and may make your existence more difficult than it needs to be. By the other hand, Theism is linked to communities. There's nothing better to unite people as a shared belief. I see what you are saying; but this idea, which I have seen expressed many times, has always perplexed me. I understand that, pragmatically speaking, having a shared belief in a supreme being may be beneficial; but one cannot just turn a belief on or off based on how beneficial it is. Even if it is true that the believers live a psychologically better, healthier and more fulfilling life (as opposed to, say, agonizing whether they will end up in hell), it is only a statement about their mental state rather than about the truth of what they believe in.
  - galfarragem 4y ago

bennysomething 4y ago

Have you heard of a book called Dominion? https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43885149-dominion https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/43885149-dominion I was also an atheist fundamentalist, I still don't think I believe in God, but that book showed me how Christianity shaped the west. The history of Christianity is fascinating.

anotherevan 4y ago

I've gone the other way as I've gotten older, which is not unusual - however I've not built up the vehemence that I see with many other ex-religious. I sometimes quip that I'm more of a "there but for the grace of God type of atheist."

swat535 4y ago

I went through this process and ended up fully converting to Catholicism.. in fact my case was even _more_ extreme as I was also born in an Islamic country. So I went from someone who REALLY hated religion (I literally lived everything Hitchens was talking about) to a confirmed Catholic by doing RCIA.. The process really started for me when I realized that God is ultimately a philosophical question (God is Ipsum Esse) rather than a scientific one. If science could answer everything, then we might as well throw out the entire field of philosophy after all.. This is how I started to study philosophy and theology (both _serious_ Atheist philosophers such as Jean Paul Sartre, Albert Camus, .. as well theologians). I think it has been an absolute net positive in my life. I've gained a wealth of knowledge, significantly grown my network and feel much more grounded in my spiritual well being. You should however, be prepared to be ridiculed if you outwardly practice your faith. I was surprised how many people would essentially conclude that I am either not educated or "brain washed".