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Ah. But I don't enjoy finishing certain tasks, I enjoy doing them. So the most potential enjoyment is gained by never finishing. I don't feel any sense of accom

Ah. But I don't enjoy finishing certain tasks, I enjoy doing them. So the most potential enjoyment is gained by never finishing. I don't feel any sense of accomplishment when finishing those tasks.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago
I feel an existential dread when I finish them.
- kaetemi 4y ago
  Yes. Even though I have literally a hundred notes on my wall for next projects to build. What if I finish the current one, and then finish all of those? Nothing left to do!
  - hutzlibu 4y ago
    Is this a real fear, or hyperbole? If it is real, I can endlessly supply you with project ideas. You know, how about solving hunger or climate change, if you are too bored ..
    - kaetemi 4y ago
      It's real. Now that I think of it, I vaguely remember in early primary school frequently finishing tasks* early, and then having nothing to do, or being put on some time wasting activity. Not very enjoyable. Might be a learned behaviour from that. *In one instance that I recall, we had these children books for learning to read. While other kids were whispering while reading, I was silent reading them, and much faster than them. (I particularly remember the other kids commenting that I was just pretending to read.) So, I went through the available books. *Another time we were supposed to underline all the words we didn't understand in a story. Since there were none, I just went through it again a few times and underlined words that looked more difficult just to finish the task. (When the teacher checked it, they just said they knew I already understood those words.) (I suppose "frog" doesn't qualify as a difficult word.) (That was during first and second grade.)
    - 8note 4y ago
      Solving climate change or hunger generally means having been born ultrawealthy and moving into politics to influence proper policy changes. They don't fit the tinkering spare time project very well. Eg. The lowest hanging fruit for improving hunger now is to convince Ukraine to capitulate to Russia so that the grain can flow, but that's only something you can do if you're a hunter Biden or the like
      - hutzlibu 4y ago
        Solving them on a global scale, is likely a bit unrealistic on your own, but there LOTS of ways to work on the problem, especially with low cost home tinkering. Photovoltaik, desalination, automated greenhouses, etc. My point is basically, that I never had the fear of being out of projects, when there are so many problems waiting to be solved. My problem was more, picking the realistic ones. But when your goal is the tinkering, than it likely will not hurt failing a unrealistic project and learning in the process.
vitabenes 4y ago
Most potential enjoyment, perhaps. I think that's more than fine for personal projects (or work projects that don't matter in the company's grand scheme of things). However, for professional endeavors, I always go back to one of Neil Gaiman's pieces of advice to aspiring authors: "You learn by finishing things."
- kaetemi 4y ago
  Yeah. I'd love to finish more things. I like that quote. But at the same time, I don't feel the incentive of accomplishment that the article refers to. Finishing something just feels... empty?
  - vitabenes 4y ago
    Hmm, interesting. Might be a case of anhedonia, which can be associated with things like addiction or depression.
    - kaetemi 4y ago
      Looked that up. Doesn't sound quite right. I enjoy working on things. It's just that actually finishing something doesn't contribute to the enjoyment. So, if there's a task that improves the project but doesn't bring it closer to actually being releasable, I don't feel any incentive in prioritising the other tasks that merely aim to finish the project.
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    This reminds me so much of achieving level 99 in skill in RuneScape. It takes about 50-200 hours, and most people don’t accomplish it for years. Once you get to 99 you just, teleport somewhere else and move on. I’m now writing a book about this, for what it’s worth. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
    - kaetemi 4y ago
      Oh, yeah. I never went to max level in an MMO I used to play. Once you reach max level in a skill tree, there's no more point in exercising that skill. The reward is that you no longer get rewards. So, why bother? The goal of reaching max level (especially over those huge time investments) doesn't make sense. There's no higher enjoyment at max level, and many games even get boring once you get there. It's a circular incentive. You level up to kill better mobs. You kill mobs to level up. So, unless there's any other reason to kill mobs, the game dies when everyone reaches max level.

Ah. But I don't enjoy finishing certain tasks, I enjoy doing them. So the most potential enjoyment is gained by never finishing. I don't feel any sense of accomplishment when finishing those tasks.

PartiallyTyped 4y ago

I feel an existential dread when I finish them.

kaetemi 4y ago
Yes. Even though I have literally a hundred notes on my wall for next projects to build. What if I finish the current one, and then finish all of those? Nothing left to do!
- hutzlibu 4y ago
  Is this a real fear, or hyperbole? If it is real, I can endlessly supply you with project ideas. You know, how about solving hunger or climate change, if you are too bored ..
  - kaetemi 4y ago
    It's real. Now that I think of it, I vaguely remember in early primary school frequently finishing tasks* early, and then having nothing to do, or being put on some time wasting activity. Not very enjoyable. Might be a learned behaviour from that. *In one instance that I recall, we had these children books for learning to read. While other kids were whispering while reading, I was silent reading them, and much faster than them. (I particularly remember the other kids commenting that I was just pretending to read.) So, I went through the available books. *Another time we were supposed to underline all the words we didn't understand in a story. Since there were none, I just went through it again a few times and underlined words that looked more difficult just to finish the task. (When the teacher checked it, they just said they knew I already understood those words.) (I suppose "frog" doesn't qualify as a difficult word.) (That was during first and second grade.)
  - 8note 4y ago
    Solving climate change or hunger generally means having been born ultrawealthy and moving into politics to influence proper policy changes. They don't fit the tinkering spare time project very well. Eg. The lowest hanging fruit for improving hunger now is to convince Ukraine to capitulate to Russia so that the grain can flow, but that's only something you can do if you're a hunter Biden or the like
    - hutzlibu 4y ago
      Solving them on a global scale, is likely a bit unrealistic on your own, but there LOTS of ways to work on the problem, especially with low cost home tinkering. Photovoltaik, desalination, automated greenhouses, etc. My point is basically, that I never had the fear of being out of projects, when there are so many problems waiting to be solved. My problem was more, picking the realistic ones. But when your goal is the tinkering, than it likely will not hurt failing a unrealistic project and learning in the process.

vitabenes 4y ago

Most potential enjoyment, perhaps. I think that's more than fine for personal projects (or work projects that don't matter in the company's grand scheme of things). However, for professional endeavors, I always go back to one of Neil Gaiman's pieces of advice to aspiring authors: "You learn by finishing things."

kaetemi 4y ago
Yeah. I'd love to finish more things. I like that quote. But at the same time, I don't feel the incentive of accomplishment that the article refers to. Finishing something just feels... empty?
- vitabenes 4y ago
  Hmm, interesting. Might be a case of anhedonia, which can be associated with things like addiction or depression.
  - kaetemi 4y ago
    Looked that up. Doesn't sound quite right. I enjoy working on things. It's just that actually finishing something doesn't contribute to the enjoyment. So, if there's a task that improves the project but doesn't bring it closer to actually being releasable, I don't feel any incentive in prioritising the other tasks that merely aim to finish the project.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  This reminds me so much of achieving level 99 in skill in RuneScape. It takes about 50-200 hours, and most people don’t accomplish it for years. Once you get to 99 you just, teleport somewhere else and move on. I’m now writing a book about this, for what it’s worth. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
  - kaetemi 4y ago
    Oh, yeah. I never went to max level in an MMO I used to play. Once you reach max level in a skill tree, there's no more point in exercising that skill. The reward is that you no longer get rewards. So, why bother? The goal of reaching max level (especially over those huge time investments) doesn't make sense. There's no higher enjoyment at max level, and many games even get boring once you get there. It's a circular incentive. You level up to kill better mobs. You kill mobs to level up. So, unless there's any other reason to kill mobs, the game dies when everyone reaches max level.