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As a beginner learning Go for the past 3 weeks, thanks for the last paragraph. I was looking into a new language to learn outside of JS and Python. I wanted to

As a beginner learning Go for the past 3 weeks, thanks for the last paragraph. I was looking into a new language to learn outside of JS and Python. I wanted to learn a hot language. I did some digging between Rust and Go and found out that Go is more suitable for web backends, CLI apps, etc. while Rust was more of a contender to C/C++, as it was primarily was made to be used as a memory-safe, correct, strict language to write low level software. I don't generally involve myself in the latter so I chose Go. I definitely want to learn Rust someday but is it worth it if I don't get into that low level of things? What are Go's and Rust's target applications according to readers here?

NIckGeek 4y ago
Rust is a general purpose programming language. It can do low level systems programming but it's also highly capable of doing web backends, web frontends (wasm), game design, small utility scripts, etc. A big thing people learning Rust do my mistake is to try and use all of the low level features straight away. Rust has tools like Rc, RefCell, Arc, and RwLock that let you have a garbage collected language (well, reference counted) and not worry about any of the low level memory management details. See things like https://ggez.rs/ https://ggez.rs/ for games and https://www.arewewebyet.org/ https://www.arewewebyet.org/ for web stuff. Although honestly I think if you're looking for a "hot" backend web language I'd say Elixir is the more well designed one than Go.
- kretaceous 4y ago
  With your and the sibling commenters comment, I've made up my mind: I'll definitely learn Rust one day and make stuff with it when I have proper time and I'm not learning anything else. Thanks for the insights!
Karrot_Kream 4y ago
Rust is indeed a general purpose programming language, but unlike the sibling poster I'm not going to sell it for low-level systems programming _and_ other things just because it can and has some (hit-or-miss depending on the domain) crates for them. Rust is a complex language and its APIs tend to reflect the underlying domain complexity nearly 1:1. It also does not have a GC. Rust interops with native code well. When you're writing code that needs to be very correct especially in complicated problem domains, Rust is a great language to reach for because it bubbles up that underlying complexity so well. If you really need the lack of GC pausing then Rust is also IMO much better than most other non-GC languages in common use (c.f. C, C++). If you need C interop, then Rust is great. If you're a fan of writing elegant abstractions, Rust is also a great tool as its macro processor and language constructs make it easy to write abstractions (compared to other imperative languages at least). But its use for other areas is, IMO, a bit fraught. Go is a lot more opinionated as a language. Its stdlib hides the complexity for certain interfaces. It has a simple-to-use concurrency model that the whole language opts into. It compiles quickly. It produces a no-nonsense static binary and has a great cross-compilation story. Go code is repetitive but simple to read. Go's tooling is stellar and because of how easy it is to write third-party tooling, people often build useful tools for themselves. I find it really easy to hack on or debug other Go projects if needed. Overall, Go is opinionated, and if the applications you're writing and the style you're writing them in fall into Go's opinions then you'll love it. If you don't like Go's style, you'll hate it. Go is my go-to (pun not intended lol) language for hobby coding because when coding as a hobby I'm often working on a constrained problem and don't need Rust's complexity. To offer a concrete example, the OP in his previous blog post wrote a diatribe about Go's filepath handling on Windows, but when I recently used Rust to write something that templated a few filenames, the whole thing took incredibly long. The complexities of Rust filepaths accurately reflect all the edge cases available for different platforms but was ridiculous overkill for my simple app that I was hacking on that was only ever going to run on a single Linux x64 platform. IMO to just "get things done" use Go. If you find yourself fighting Go's idioms, then Go isn't for you. If you really enjoy writing elegant abstractions, Go isn't for you. If you need to go deep into an API that Go simplifies and will spend most of your logic doing just that, then Go isn't for you. If you can't tolerate the GC pauses then Go isn't for you. Otherwise just use Go to get stuff done.
- kretaceous 4y ago
  Thank you for the detailed explanation! That actually clarifies a lot of things. Indeed, there's no straight-forward answer to the question "Should I learn Rust as a web backend developer?". It depends on all of the above things you mentioned here. Go: Trades off correctness with opinions and abstractions. Has a GC. Has a simple, dare I say old or not-modern, type system. Easy to pick up. Hard to have full control over the program. Rust: Reflects and embraces the actual system with its complexity. Correctness is first and foremost as it deals with all the edge cases. Not easy to pick up. But worth it for critical projects. In a realisation, why do people even compare these two? :)
  - Karrot_Kream 4y ago
    > In a realisation, why do people even compare these two? :) That's the puzzling thing. While the author doesn't explicitly call out Rust as the better alternative, if you look at his Twitter, it's fairly obvious his community is thinking of Rust. But I don't understand why. They're different languages with different strengths and weaknesses. If I'm writing a net service I'd rather write it in Go. If I'm writing something in OpenGL, I'd rather write it in Rust. There's no need to insult one another.

NIckGeek 4y ago

Rust is a general purpose programming language. It can do low level systems programming but it's also highly capable of doing web backends, web frontends (wasm), game design, small utility scripts, etc. A big thing people learning Rust do my mistake is to try and use all of the low level features straight away. Rust has tools like Rc, RefCell, Arc, and RwLock that let you have a garbage collected language (well, reference counted) and not worry about any of the low level memory management details. See things like https://ggez.rs/ https://ggez.rs/ for games and https://www.arewewebyet.org/ https://www.arewewebyet.org/ for web stuff. Although honestly I think if you're looking for a "hot" backend web language I'd say Elixir is the more well designed one than Go.

kretaceous 4y ago
With your and the sibling commenters comment, I've made up my mind: I'll definitely learn Rust one day and make stuff with it when I have proper time and I'm not learning anything else. Thanks for the insights!

Karrot_Kream 4y ago

Rust is indeed a general purpose programming language, but unlike the sibling poster I'm not going to sell it for low-level systems programming _and_ other things just because it can and has some (hit-or-miss depending on the domain) crates for them. Rust is a complex language and its APIs tend to reflect the underlying domain complexity nearly 1:1. It also does not have a GC. Rust interops with native code well. When you're writing code that needs to be very correct especially in complicated problem domains, Rust is a great language to reach for because it bubbles up that underlying complexity so well. If you really need the lack of GC pausing then Rust is also IMO much better than most other non-GC languages in common use (c.f. C, C++). If you need C interop, then Rust is great. If you're a fan of writing elegant abstractions, Rust is also a great tool as its macro processor and language constructs make it easy to write abstractions (compared to other imperative languages at least). But its use for other areas is, IMO, a bit fraught. Go is a lot more opinionated as a language. Its stdlib hides the complexity for certain interfaces. It has a simple-to-use concurrency model that the whole language opts into. It compiles quickly. It produces a no-nonsense static binary and has a great cross-compilation story. Go code is repetitive but simple to read. Go's tooling is stellar and because of how easy it is to write third-party tooling, people often build useful tools for themselves. I find it really easy to hack on or debug other Go projects if needed. Overall, Go is opinionated, and if the applications you're writing and the style you're writing them in fall into Go's opinions then you'll love it. If you don't like Go's style, you'll hate it. Go is my go-to (pun not intended lol) language for hobby coding because when coding as a hobby I'm often working on a constrained problem and don't need Rust's complexity. To offer a concrete example, the OP in his previous blog post wrote a diatribe about Go's filepath handling on Windows, but when I recently used Rust to write something that templated a few filenames, the whole thing took incredibly long. The complexities of Rust filepaths accurately reflect all the edge cases available for different platforms but was ridiculous overkill for my simple app that I was hacking on that was only ever going to run on a single Linux x64 platform. IMO to just "get things done" use Go. If you find yourself fighting Go's idioms, then Go isn't for you. If you really enjoy writing elegant abstractions, Go isn't for you. If you need to go deep into an API that Go simplifies and will spend most of your logic doing just that, then Go isn't for you. If you can't tolerate the GC pauses then Go isn't for you. Otherwise just use Go to get stuff done.

kretaceous 4y ago
Thank you for the detailed explanation! That actually clarifies a lot of things. Indeed, there's no straight-forward answer to the question "Should I learn Rust as a web backend developer?". It depends on all of the above things you mentioned here. Go: Trades off correctness with opinions and abstractions. Has a GC. Has a simple, dare I say old or not-modern, type system. Easy to pick up. Hard to have full control over the program. Rust: Reflects and embraces the actual system with its complexity. Correctness is first and foremost as it deals with all the edge cases. Not easy to pick up. But worth it for critical projects. In a realisation, why do people even compare these two? :)
- Karrot_Kream 4y ago
  > In a realisation, why do people even compare these two? :) That's the puzzling thing. While the author doesn't explicitly call out Rust as the better alternative, if you look at his Twitter, it's fairly obvious his community is thinking of Rust. But I don't understand why. They're different languages with different strengths and weaknesses. If I'm writing a net service I'd rather write it in Go. If I'm writing something in OpenGL, I'd rather write it in Rust. There's no need to insult one another.