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I'm moderately sure that the UK government has that power; we have no equivalent of the contract clause here. People still make contracts with the UK government

by twic 5y ago

I'm moderately sure that the UK government has that power; we have no equivalent of the contract clause here. People still make contracts with the UK government.

michaelt 5y ago
Correct - I was trying to be succinct. The idea of "sovereign debt credit ratings" is of course how it's done internationally - a nation may be unable to actually render itself unable to default, but if it's got a 350-year history of not defaulting, that can serve as a substitute. But many organisations need loans before they've established a 350-year history, and a constitutional clause can give investors greater confidence.
makomk 5y ago
Yes. One of the fundamental principles of British democracy is that no parliament may bind its successors; any law they make can be overturned by a future parliament. Generally the main consequence of this is that companies aren't willing to sign contracts that are likely to be overturned by their successors; as a general principle the government will pay for work already done, but penalty clauses designed to force the next government to keep the scheme going (which I think Labour tried with ID cards) don't fare so well. This is kind of necessary in a functioning democracy (as opposed to a corpocracy with democratic trappings); if any government can just give sweetheart deals transferring power to corporations that voters can't do anything about by exercising their vote, in what sense are the voters really in charge at all?
bloak 5y ago
Yes, that's right, I think. In the UK we have parliamentary sovereignty. As I understand it, no law and no court can stop Parliament from doing what it wants to do because every UK law can be amended by Parliament and every court merely applies those laws. (Courts may also apply international laws in some cases but the UK laws take priority and could override any foreign law.) The UK's Constitution is utterly terrible. In many places if you tried to implement something similar it would probably self-destruct very quickly. The UK manages to keep going with it (not brilliantly, but society hasn't completely collapsed yet) only because there is a strong democratic culture. That's my theory, anyway.

by twic 5y ago

I'm moderately sure that the UK government has that power; we have no equivalent of the contract clause here. People still make contracts with the UK government.

michaelt 5y ago

Correct - I was trying to be succinct. The idea of "sovereign debt credit ratings" is of course how it's done internationally - a nation may be unable to actually render itself unable to default, but if it's got a 350-year history of not defaulting, that can serve as a substitute. But many organisations need loans before they've established a 350-year history, and a constitutional clause can give investors greater confidence.

makomk 5y ago

Yes. One of the fundamental principles of British democracy is that no parliament may bind its successors; any law they make can be overturned by a future parliament. Generally the main consequence of this is that companies aren't willing to sign contracts that are likely to be overturned by their successors; as a general principle the government will pay for work already done, but penalty clauses designed to force the next government to keep the scheme going (which I think Labour tried with ID cards) don't fare so well. This is kind of necessary in a functioning democracy (as opposed to a corpocracy with democratic trappings); if any government can just give sweetheart deals transferring power to corporations that voters can't do anything about by exercising their vote, in what sense are the voters really in charge at all?

bloak 5y ago

Yes, that's right, I think. In the UK we have parliamentary sovereignty. As I understand it, no law and no court can stop Parliament from doing what it wants to do because every UK law can be amended by Parliament and every court merely applies those laws. (Courts may also apply international laws in some cases but the UK laws take priority and could override any foreign law.) The UK's Constitution is utterly terrible. In many places if you tried to implement something similar it would probably self-destruct very quickly. The UK manages to keep going with it (not brilliantly, but society hasn't completely collapsed yet) only because there is a strong democratic culture. That's my theory, anyway.